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Well I'll give them credit for being able to recognize and reverse a mistake. That's a good sign for the future. The original plan was pretty much a death sent

by CPLX 8y ago

Well I'll give them credit for being able to recognize and reverse a mistake. That's a good sign for the future. The original plan was pretty much a death sentence for them, it's impossible to compete seriously without giving people an opportunity to actually see and drive the product.

xkjkls 8y ago
It is still terrible and irresponsible to make corporate decisions at this scale and just whiplash back and forth. There are thousands of people employed by this company who have felt dread and uncertainty because of these decisions. They should have to upend their lives because Elon Musk chooses to zig one day and zag the next.
brink 8y ago
Is it though? I was a fan of the slimmed down approach. With how prolific Amazon is, most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy, and is better off for it. I've never had the experience of first-hand interaction with a Tesla product, but I still want one strictly due the feedback I've gotten from actual owners on Youtube. I can get a much more insightful review of the product from someone who's owned the car for 10 months, than if I were to simply sit in the car and drive it around for 10 minutes.
- Voloskaya 8y ago
  Average price of a cart on Amazon must be around ~15$. Minimum cart price on Tesla website is 35k$, not really comparable.
  - xkjkls 8y ago
    As an interesting aside, the Tesla Model 3 is a reviewed product on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-2018-3/dp/B076H6WHPP https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-2018-3/dp/B076H6WHPP
- jfk13 8y ago
  > most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy Leading -- almost inevitably -- to a huge market in fake reviews. This doesn't seem to be a solved problem yet.
- atlasunshrugged 8y ago
  I'm 100% on board with that if the return process is pretty frictionless. I need to be able to test out the vehicle for a few days without making a full commitment just based on online product reviews
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    > I'm 100% on board with that if the return process is pretty frictionless. I don't see how it could be anything but a hassle. Consider: - The vehicle is financed and you'd have to unwind the financing. That has to be a pain in the ass. - You traded in your old car.
    - MBCook 8y ago
      Plus stories about Tesla being really bad at giving people their money on returns (or even cancelled/upgraded leases) quickly. I can’t afford to have most of 40k sitting in limbo for a while while Tesla figures something out. Can you?
      - dragontamer 8y ago
        > I can’t afford to have most of 40k sitting in limbo for a while while Tesla figures something out. Can you? The real answer to this question is: nobody can afford $40k in limbo. The 30-day US Treasury is at 2.44% this week. This means you get $81 / month MINIMUM if you just leave that in US Treasury Bonds. That's the lowest-risk Treasury available, you make more money with any other investment on the market.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > With how prolific Amazon is, most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy, and is better off for it. Amazon doesn't sell a lot of products that people are getting financing for at $30K+ prices and trading in other expensive products as part of the purchase transactions. Things like cars and homes are not the same, for people of normal financial means, as phone chargers and boxed cereal, or even big-screen TVs. (Also not convinced that online reviews are much of a benefit beyond partially compensating for problems unique to online retail, like the lack of gatekeeping.)
mattbeckman 8y ago
I wouldn't say it was a death sentence. Maybe it depends on strong word-of-mouth reputation, but I'd prefer to buy one online without ever stepping onto a sales floor. From their original announcement: "You can now return a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free." This is how buying a car should be, if it was up to me.
- BoorishBears 8y ago
  Tesla has a terrible track record with returning money. Stories of getting the run around and in one case bounced checks... And for those financing returning a loan is not loan easy as returning the car.
  - dd36 8y ago
    I had no issue getting my deposit refunded. Was quick and easy.
    - BoorishBears 8y ago
      That's good for you. Not everyone did: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/refund-stories.143508/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/refund-stories.14350...
- tivert 8y ago
  > "You can now return a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free." > This is how buying a car should be No it isn't. How realistic and practical would it be to choose between multiple makes, models, and option packages if you had to buy all of them and return the ones you didn't want within 7 days (or be stuck with them)? The only situation where Tesla's model makes any sense is for a customer who's already 99% committed to buying a Tesla, but most buyers aren't like that. One awesome thing about the traditional dealer model is that you can try cars out at a leisurely pace with absolutely no obligation to buy. Tesla's model is twisted so that you have a Sword of Damocles handing over your head.
kenperkins 8y ago
> Well I'll give them credit for being able to recognize and reverse a mistake. That's a good sign for the future. It's very concerning that they made that call in the first place. It should never have been reversed because they shouldn't have done it. I'm a huge fan of Tesla, but I can't help but say it feels completely chaotic atm.
rconti 8y ago
They needed the stores initially, to convince people that they're a going concern, have real cars that actually drive, and so on. Now everybody knows them, so they don't think they need stores. In a year or two, with EV competition heating up, they'll need real stores again. Test drive a Mercedes EV, test drive a BMW EV, and... oh that Tesla thing? I don't know, I can't drive one, better go with the 'real' manufacturer. The 'closing stores' stunt is what got my dad to finally pull his Model 3 reservation money. You no longer need to 'wait in line', and he's already got priority as an S owner anyway, to the extent that it matters. He was pissed that they'd just jerk their retail employees around like that. I'm wondering if I should buy autopilot now that it's down to $2000, before they raise the price again. It definitely wasn't worth $5000 to me. I'm not sure it's worth $2k, but if it's worth buying, it's worth buying at the lowest price!
- dkural 8y ago
  Hey bud, please just remember it is assisted driving & keep paying full attention on the road.

by CPLX 8y ago

xkjkls 8y ago

It is still terrible and irresponsible to make corporate decisions at this scale and just whiplash back and forth. There are thousands of people employed by this company who have felt dread and uncertainty because of these decisions. They should have to upend their lives because Elon Musk chooses to zig one day and zag the next.

brink 8y ago

Is it though? I was a fan of the slimmed down approach. With how prolific Amazon is, most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy, and is better off for it. I've never had the experience of first-hand interaction with a Tesla product, but I still want one strictly due the feedback I've gotten from actual owners on Youtube. I can get a much more insightful review of the product from someone who's owned the car for 10 months, than if I were to simply sit in the car and drive it around for 10 minutes.

Voloskaya 8y ago
Average price of a cart on Amazon must be around ~15$. Minimum cart price on Tesla website is 35k$, not really comparable.
- xkjkls 8y ago
  As an interesting aside, the Tesla Model 3 is a reviewed product on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-2018-3/dp/B076H6WHPP https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-2018-3/dp/B076H6WHPP
jfk13 8y ago
> most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy Leading -- almost inevitably -- to a huge market in fake reviews. This doesn't seem to be a solved problem yet.
atlasunshrugged 8y ago
I'm 100% on board with that if the return process is pretty frictionless. I need to be able to test out the vehicle for a few days without making a full commitment just based on online product reviews
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > I'm 100% on board with that if the return process is pretty frictionless. I don't see how it could be anything but a hassle. Consider: - The vehicle is financed and you'd have to unwind the financing. That has to be a pain in the ass. - You traded in your old car.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    Plus stories about Tesla being really bad at giving people their money on returns (or even cancelled/upgraded leases) quickly. I can’t afford to have most of 40k sitting in limbo for a while while Tesla figures something out. Can you?
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      > I can’t afford to have most of 40k sitting in limbo for a while while Tesla figures something out. Can you? The real answer to this question is: nobody can afford $40k in limbo. The 30-day US Treasury is at 2.44% this week. This means you get $81 / month MINIMUM if you just leave that in US Treasury Bonds. That's the lowest-risk Treasury available, you make more money with any other investment on the market.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> With how prolific Amazon is, most of the consumer market relies on reviews to discern which products to buy, and is better off for it. Amazon doesn't sell a lot of products that people are getting financing for at $30K+ prices and trading in other expensive products as part of the purchase transactions. Things like cars and homes are not the same, for people of normal financial means, as phone chargers and boxed cereal, or even big-screen TVs. (Also not convinced that online reviews are much of a benefit beyond partially compensating for problems unique to online retail, like the lack of gatekeeping.)

mattbeckman 8y ago

I wouldn't say it was a death sentence. Maybe it depends on strong word-of-mouth reputation, but I'd prefer to buy one online without ever stepping onto a sales floor. From their original announcement: "You can now return a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free." This is how buying a car should be, if it was up to me.

BoorishBears 8y ago
Tesla has a terrible track record with returning money. Stories of getting the run around and in one case bounced checks... And for those financing returning a loan is not loan easy as returning the car.
- dd36 8y ago
  I had no issue getting my deposit refunded. Was quick and easy.
  - BoorishBears 8y ago
    That's good for you. Not everyone did: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/refund-stories.143508/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/refund-stories.14350...
tivert 8y ago
> "You can now return a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free." > This is how buying a car should be No it isn't. How realistic and practical would it be to choose between multiple makes, models, and option packages if you had to buy all of them and return the ones you didn't want within 7 days (or be stuck with them)? The only situation where Tesla's model makes any sense is for a customer who's already 99% committed to buying a Tesla, but most buyers aren't like that. One awesome thing about the traditional dealer model is that you can try cars out at a leisurely pace with absolutely no obligation to buy. Tesla's model is twisted so that you have a Sword of Damocles handing over your head.

kenperkins 8y ago

> Well I'll give them credit for being able to recognize and reverse a mistake. That's a good sign for the future. It's very concerning that they made that call in the first place. It should never have been reversed because they shouldn't have done it. I'm a huge fan of Tesla, but I can't help but say it feels completely chaotic atm.

rconti 8y ago

They needed the stores initially, to convince people that they're a going concern, have real cars that actually drive, and so on. Now everybody knows them, so they don't think they need stores. In a year or two, with EV competition heating up, they'll need real stores again. Test drive a Mercedes EV, test drive a BMW EV, and... oh that Tesla thing? I don't know, I can't drive one, better go with the 'real' manufacturer. The 'closing stores' stunt is what got my dad to finally pull his Model 3 reservation money. You no longer need to 'wait in line', and he's already got priority as an S owner anyway, to the extent that it matters. He was pissed that they'd just jerk their retail employees around like that. I'm wondering if I should buy autopilot now that it's down to $2000, before they raise the price again. It definitely wasn't worth $5000 to me. I'm not sure it's worth $2k, but if it's worth buying, it's worth buying at the lowest price!

dkural 8y ago
Hey bud, please just remember it is assisted driving & keep paying full attention on the road.