5 ms·

Congrats on the release! You should be very proud of what your movement has accomplished. I want to highlight something that I appreciate in your release post,

Congrats on the release! You should be very proud of what your movement has accomplished. I want to highlight something that I appreciate in your release post, which is the short explanation between paragraphs 1 & 2: "Sway is an i3-compatible Wayland desktop for Linux and FreeBSD" One of my major peeves with OSS projects is the tendency to adopt an "if you're reading this, you already know what this is for" stance. It's not just elitist... it's a missed opportunity to bring passers-by into the fold. It might seem dull or repetitive to people that are deep in the trees to see layman explanations, but at least linking to them is a small but appreciated nod of respect to people who are just coming online. To this end, I would challenge that you could set an amazing example that goes further towards accomplishing these goals by linking the words in that description to readable explanations of what the words mean in the context of this project. Your goal should be to move beyond what Sway is and perhaps start with why Sway exists. It's clear that this is important, but someone coming in has no idea what motivated you and your army of contributors to stop other important projects and build this. Where does it fit into the concepts that they are already familiar with? What other technologies does it replace? What can I do with this that I couldn't do before? Are there tradeoffs to using this over other solutions? Are there situations where I shouldn't use this? And eventually: are there newer projects that Sway inspires which are even better that I should probably be using instead? If we look at your explanation in this new light, "Sway is an i3-compatible Wayland desktop for Linux and FreeBSD", you can see that it's opaque to people who aren't already familiar. i3... you mean like the Intel i3? What's Wayland? I use Ubuntu... isn't that my desktop? I heard MacOS is based on FreeBSD, so can I use this on a Mac? These aren't problems, they are opportunities to be a hero to the silent majority of people who have no freaking clue what a tiling window manager is or why it might be applicable to them.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
https://swaywm.org https://swaywm.org should cover this right?
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Should, but doesn't. This is all there is: "Sway allows you to arrange your application windows logically, rather than spatially. Windows are arranged into a grid by default which maximizes the efficiency of your screen and can be quickly manipulated using only the keyboard." Sounds interesting. No screenshots, though. Just a big black box reading "No compatible source was found for this media." I guess it's trying to play a video? Why not have a video, and also images which are compatible with every single browser since Netscape?
  - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
    There is a video. Are you sure you aren't using Netscape? The video is webm, which is supported by all major browsers.
    - erk__ 8y ago
      They may be using a browser that does not support vp9 such as safari or mobile browsers. Even if they support the container format webm, it does not mean that it supports all formats.
      - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
        Sway doesn't run on macOS or mobile platforms.
        erk__ 8y ago
        We do live in a world where people browse the internet on other machines than their primary workstation, I would even say many people browse hackernews when they are commuting or something like it.
        codetrotter 8y ago
        Indeed. I run Linux and FreeBSD on all of my computers but the vast majority of the time I spend on HN I am browsing using my iPhone. On the couch, when I am walking between places, during breaks etc.
- peteforde 8y ago
  Yes, that is the ideal place for all of the above questions to be answered. What you have there is a good start, with lots of room for expansion. For what it's worth, I was browsing HN on my iPhone and wrote my comment on my desktop - which means that I did not perceive that you had a video. While this is easily addressed by providing an mp4 encoding alongside your webm, the types of information I'm suggesting you provide would weigh down a product teaser video heavily. The ideal product video is about a minute and focuses entirely on how awesome your life will be when you have access to Sway 1.0. All of the noob questions can safely be answered using text with hyperlinks.
markstos 8y ago
Thanks for saying this! I noticed this too. Sway got this right. So often I'm linked to a project status announcement where I soon give up because it's not all clear what the project is about. Even just adding a sentence or two like Sway did goes a long way.
- sephoric 8y ago
  I fell into this same trap with Autumn (https://sephware.com/autumn https://sephware.com/autumn) because it's such an abstract concept that it's hard to explain all that it can do. First of all the term "window manager" is overloaded and many people thought it was just like i3 or dwm but for Mac, but it was actually a lot like Slate or Hammerspoon. But also, just like Hammerspoon, it's incredibly versatile and allows you to do a whole lot more than "manage windows". I tried to use visuals to fix this problem, namely a video and a lot of screenshots, but I don't think it helped. The fact is that I'm terrible at marketing (despite decades of trying to get better), and I just have to admit that. Well that and the fact that apparently nobody ever wanted or needed a "window manager with an IDE built in" product, and so I also suck at being a PM apparently.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Am I crazy, or did you completely misinterpret the OP’s post?

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago

https://swaywm.org https://swaywm.org should cover this right?

reaperducer 8y ago
Should, but doesn't. This is all there is: "Sway allows you to arrange your application windows logically, rather than spatially. Windows are arranged into a grid by default which maximizes the efficiency of your screen and can be quickly manipulated using only the keyboard." Sounds interesting. No screenshots, though. Just a big black box reading "No compatible source was found for this media." I guess it's trying to play a video? Why not have a video, and also images which are compatible with every single browser since Netscape?
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  There is a video. Are you sure you aren't using Netscape? The video is webm, which is supported by all major browsers.
  - erk__ 8y ago
    They may be using a browser that does not support vp9 such as safari or mobile browsers. Even if they support the container format webm, it does not mean that it supports all formats.
    - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
      Sway doesn't run on macOS or mobile platforms.
      - erk__ 8y ago
        We do live in a world where people browse the internet on other machines than their primary workstation, I would even say many people browse hackernews when they are commuting or something like it.
        codetrotter 8y ago
        Indeed. I run Linux and FreeBSD on all of my computers but the vast majority of the time I spend on HN I am browsing using my iPhone. On the couch, when I am walking between places, during breaks etc.
peteforde 8y ago
Yes, that is the ideal place for all of the above questions to be answered. What you have there is a good start, with lots of room for expansion. For what it's worth, I was browsing HN on my iPhone and wrote my comment on my desktop - which means that I did not perceive that you had a video. While this is easily addressed by providing an mp4 encoding alongside your webm, the types of information I'm suggesting you provide would weigh down a product teaser video heavily. The ideal product video is about a minute and focuses entirely on how awesome your life will be when you have access to Sway 1.0. All of the noob questions can safely be answered using text with hyperlinks.

markstos 8y ago

Thanks for saying this! I noticed this too. Sway got this right. So often I'm linked to a project status announcement where I soon give up because it's not all clear what the project is about. Even just adding a sentence or two like Sway did goes a long way.

sephoric 8y ago
I fell into this same trap with Autumn (https://sephware.com/autumn https://sephware.com/autumn) because it's such an abstract concept that it's hard to explain all that it can do. First of all the term "window manager" is overloaded and many people thought it was just like i3 or dwm but for Mac, but it was actually a lot like Slate or Hammerspoon. But also, just like Hammerspoon, it's incredibly versatile and allows you to do a whole lot more than "manage windows". I tried to use visuals to fix this problem, namely a video and a lot of screenshots, but I don't think it helped. The fact is that I'm terrible at marketing (despite decades of trying to get better), and I just have to admit that. Well that and the fact that apparently nobody ever wanted or needed a "window manager with an IDE built in" product, and so I also suck at being a PM apparently.
Aeolun 8y ago
Am I crazy, or did you completely misinterpret the OP’s post?