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India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports
- aurizon 8y agoMore News, India institutes a new regime where there is no bribery of politicians...
- ggm 8y agoPresumably people notice this is explicitly targetting the consequences of China banning them the same way: when china moved, the feedstock moved to India.
- andrewstuart 8y agoThe dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper garbage. Why are we spewing out an infinite quantity of single use plastic and packaging? It's all about the packaging industry and profit. The thing that annoys me most is the in almost 100% of cases, the solutions discussed are about "how do we make use of all this plastic and other waste?", instead of asking the question "why haven't we turned off the tap?"
- INTPenis 8y ago>It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. I've worked at a recycling plant so I know that it's different than the old landfills. But we just separated parts, components and fabrics out of various items. Never saw where they ended up.
- godzillabrennus 8y agoMaybe Russia needs a new industry? Is there any other nation (North Korea aside) that would let foreigners ship trash to be dumped on their land?
- i_am_nomad 8y agoIt would have to be kept very, very quiet, since Russia is very sensitive about prestige these days vis-a-vis the West.
- immernerstheime 8y agoI remember seen on the news or documentary or something kids in Africa burning computer trash for metals and shit plastic poisonous gases covering mouth with tshirts same style brazil jail when some situation and kids you see on the news quakeguy is a One who sails with the speed of googleFu Panda so kids in Africa yeah and I dont think is profitable to move plastic before recicling around probably the economics of recicling it insitu or sitting at sitting place well no sitting analogies and well so nice from LOved India I love India and Wix right so... I need to learn Indian Language and some kind of old characters they probably have and the Cirillic Alphabet too yeah I know jusy few words like Moloko what is MIlk and Krassavtza and Zaidnitzia and Klass`Ne Krassavttza Zaidnitzia JOpa! KlassNe Jopa!!! and some things like that but no much Cirillic yeah but learn like learn Traditional Chinese characters too as the people of Japan and the people of Korea and the people of Hong Kong and the people of Taiwan and the people of All China and VIetnam and Even in Malasya and the people of Cingapur and yeah I learn traditional characters too and I dont want to learn fucking greek old letterts because im lazy yeah yeah yeah thanks
- olliej 8y agoEventually those of us in America and Europe will have to start actually recycling rather than just saying we are while shipping it to other countries. Obviously part of the solution is going to necessarily require companies stop putting so much waste packaging on products.
- avip 8y agoWe need reducing, not recycling. Recycling is an amazingly inefficient and polluting solution to a problem that should not exist (in its current magnitude) in a sanely-managed planet.
- hutzlibu 8y ago"We need reducing, not recycling." Why not more of both?
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y agoReducing and reusing do not rely on external factors. You can do that yourself right now and it’s completely within your control.
- hutzlibu 8y agoYes, but did I say anything else? I let my nephews tear down broken old laptops for parts reuse, for example ... quite fun and useful. And since I am in germany, I can also add more to the recycling part. We sort old glas by colors - they do get recycled. Old paper - same. And even plastic to some extent, even though I know that most of that gets burned. But some of it actually does get recycled. Our ordinary trash bin is quite small.
- benj111 8y agoWell it is "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" and in that order
- frafra 8y ago
- leggomylibro 8y agoI wonder if this trend will inspire more people to look into DIY recycling. Plastics are pretty easy to melt down and reuse, if you know what sort of plastic you are working with. You should research the types of recycleable plastics and how they are marked[0] - some types can release toxic fumes which are bad for both you and the planet. I've heard you can develop allergies to plastics from breathing some of the nastier fumes, and while that may be an urban legend I would definitely advise caution. Still, HDPE and LDPE seem fairly safe and easy to recycle without adding things like plasticisers, and HDPE bricks make for great CNC stock. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recycling_codes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recycling_codes
- sydd 8y agoYou can buy a machine for $300 that recycles plastic at home for your 3D printer. https://www.filastruder.com/collections/filastruders-accessories/products/filastruder-kit?variant=338125655 https://www.filastruder.com/collections/filastruders-accesso...
- zaroth 8y agoIt expects pellets on the input; The Filastruder filament extruder needs chunks of plastic that are no larger than 5mm on any side. So it’s missing a step from being an actual recycling bin.
- blihp 8y agoIt's nice in theory, less so in practice based on the various reviews of the various DIY filament solutions I've seen. There are problems both with the consistency of the diameter of the extruded filament and the fact that each time you melt plastic it degrades significantly so that even on the second melt you have to mix in a significant fraction of new material.[1] We might get there eventually but in the meantime, people have had more success melting down waste plastics into bars/rods for use in subtractive (i.e. lathe/mill) applications. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_degradation_of_polymers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_degradation_of_polymer...
- Razengan 8y ago
- zaroth 8y agoI don’t know if this is correct, but here is my theory; Container ships have to make the voyage from the US back to China, why do it empty? They need massive tonnage to bring back, and the US just doesn’t export enough into China so let’s carry recycling? (This assumes the ships that bring X from China to the US can bring Y from the US back to Chine without expensive reconfiguration, and perhaps also that the ports of entry are reasonably close?) Also, the amount of money that China was willing to pay for the material (or be paid for taking the material) was so outside the market price as to essentially be “dumping” (economically speaking) their recycling waste capture product on the US. In the presence of Chinese dumping no US facility could fairly exist in the market, so they all shut down. Now that the Chinese economic dumping had ceased, the US is left without a functioning market. Yes, it pleases me to no end to frame the problem of US recycling as China dumping. No, I haven’t been able to determine if there is any factual basis to this hypothesis!
- drilldrive 8y agoObviously there is a great need for some good investigative journalism for this situation as to clear the air.
- mschuster91 8y ago> In the presence of Chinese dumping no US facility could fairly exist in the market, so they all shut down. Now that the Chinese economic dumping had ceased, the US is left without a functioning market. So, uh, basically the business model of venture capitalism? Go into a market, crush all the competition with massive amounts of cheap money and then jack up prices? Don't call me surprised when China opens its ports for waste again but at 10x or 100x the price...
- dang 8y agoThis issue was discussed yesterday from the China side: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19346342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19346342
- elchief 8y agoSaw this on my feed today: A relatively painless guide to cutting plastic out of your life https://www.fastcompany.com/90312169 https://www.fastcompany.com/90312169
- xfitm3 8y agoThe article suggests glass shampoo bottles? No thanks. Plastic is a great material, it is just abused.
- sykic 8y agoPlastic is not a great material for the environment and your comment illustrates the crux of the issue for humanity. We tend to optimize for local maxima and not global ones. As other commenters have pointed out pricing in externalities would be a great step forward. Plastic shampoo containers may not be so great in your eyes if their cost became prohibitively expensive.
- triplewipeass 8y agoPlastic is a great material for some uses, but it’s also a very durable material. I’d love to purchase shampoo in the form of a refill of the plastic shampoo bottle I’ve already purchased some months ago. Why buy a new bottle every time? That’s the part which doesn’t make sense.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- emiliobumachar 8y agoWhat would the refill package look like?
- kalleboo 8y agoSame way a glass shampoo bottle refill package would look like?
- gzeus 8y agoThis is just funny for me. India already is one of the countries where you can see waste everywhere.
- 0xFFFE 8y agoThat problem is being fixed, aforementioned article is one of the steps being taken towards that goal. Funny how "waste everywhere" automatically translates to let's dump more garbage in that country.
- nonamechicken 8y agoDepends on the area. Some areas are clean, some areas are filthy. The city I live in is successfully reducing the usage of plastic. They banned plastic bags that are at a certain thickness (the kind you get in grocery stores). Everyone uses paper/cloth bags and lot of times its reused. Now the government authorities are talking with restaurants to see how they can reduce plastic on take out food. At home, they collect plastic waste once a week. We are expected to clean the plastic properly and dry it before handing them over. I was really surprised to see how much plastic waste we generate every week in our 2 people household. Seeing that has motivated me to reduce waste as much as possible. They are also replacing all the city public transport buses with electric. They had some trial runs and electric buses made good amount of profit for them. So hoping to see an all electric fleet in another 5 years. Another major source of pollution is the 3 wheeler auto rickshaws (tuk tuk). News reports say they will also eventually become electric.
- doorbellguy 8y agoNah, I don't find it funny. I find it nice that steps are being taken to stop this from happening.
- hbarka 8y agoWhat happened to the futuristic plasma furnaces that were supposed to be able to melt all this stuff into elemental components?
- AlphaSite 8y agoCarbon is not that useful on its own.
- itissid 8y agoI have seen a few biodegradable things used for takeout like in chipotle. Can someone tell me why those are not more popular in at least some processed food, e.g. my hummus.
- WheelsAtLarge 8y agoThe cost makes it hard to use biodegradables. They are way more expensive so companies won't buy them if they don't have to. Industries like fast food restaurants survive on a very tight profit margin so a few cents makes a difference. Also, if they aren't properly handled so they can decompose they are just as bad since they won't break down.
- maxxxxx 8y agoIf they were forced to use biodegradable everybody would have to raise prices by a few cents and nobody would notice. I agree with the concern about not being handled properly. How many biodegradable really end up in a compost pile>
- WheelsAtLarge 8y agoIndia should have done this long ago. Recycling items is way harder than it needs to be. First companies need to re-engineer their products to minimize the solid waste and maximize recyclability Second, people need to easily understand what can be recycled and what can not so they can make an informed decision Third, communities should not have the option to ship out their waste and have someone else deal with the problem. By shipping out their problems they never have to deal with the consequences. Solid waste is as much pollution as smog has been in large cities. Clean air laws have changed the whole environment in cites like Los Angeles.It's time we start doing the same with solid waste.
- greeneggs 8y ago> Solid waste is as much pollution as smog has been in large cities. Clean air laws have changed the whole environment in cites like Los Angeles.It's time we start doing the same with solid waste. As much as smog "has been"? Los Angeles today is still full of SUVs belching smog. The air quality is still insanely awful. Yet the dialog has moved on (maybe because SUVs are for the wealthy?). Why care about landfills? Air pollution kills people, in addition to hurting them less severely and blocking the views. And on a global scale, climate change is going to hurt everyone on Earth. Landfills in the United States, where they should be properly lined so they don't leak poisons, don't hurt anybody. Plastic in landfills even sequesters carbon.
- wutbrodo 8y ago> As much as smog "has been"? Los Angeles today is still full of SUVs belching smog. The air quality is still insanely awful. Yet the dialog has moved on (maybe because SUVs are for the wealthy?). Meh, there's no need to resort to conspiracy theories to explain why the conversation has dropped off the radar. The level of smog in LA is _drastically_ lower than its peak, both quantitatively (as one figure, ozone levels are 40% of what they were in 1970) and in terms of how the man on the ground experiences it. Most people stop caring about a problem when it stops being so dramatically visible.
- bamboozled 8y ago
- jackfoxy 8y agoThank God. Hopefully everyone learns from this. Recycle where it makes economic sense, or bury in an approved manner. It will be interesting rock in less than 1M years.
- doorbellguy 8y agoI like this move.
- Waterluvian 8y agoI want to live in a world of reusables. Where I show up to a grocery store with glass bottles to be swapped out for filled ones of soda and milk. Give me yogurt in glass, even. I don't care. We have this complicated recycling sorting program in Waterloo. And months ago I noticed that they simply stopped giving a crap about the sortedness or cleanliness of anything that isn't aluminum. Are papers still decently recycled?
- hedora 8y agoVaguely on topic: I used to work in one of the tall buildings in downtown Berkeley, so I could see the bay. Every day, I’d spot at least one garbage scow hauling stuff off to be dumped somewhere in the bay/ocean. That was about the same time they banned single use plastic bags. The hypocrisy of inconveniencing everyone to make a show of doing something while still allowing the garbage scow pisses me off to this day. I wish these environmental greenwash programs came with a legal requirement to do a end-to-end impact study after implementation.
- torgian 8y agoNothing perturbs me more than the whole plastic problem we have. China and India's plastic and garbage pollution is one thing, but Japan is the place that irks me the most when it comes to plastic use. I bought bananas that were wrapped in plastic (go figure, right? ) And what did the cashier do? She wrapped it in more plastic! THEN she gave me a plastic bag to put it in! That blew my mind. Like, why? Just _why_? Go to any supermarket in Japan and you'll see fruit and vegetables wrapped in plastic for no good reason at all. It's one of the reasons I typically buy my produce from the local farmers instead of the market now. I mean, why would you _individually_ _wrap_ oranges?
- dforrestwilson 8y agoYes it’s so odd! The cultural attitude is all about presentation, sometimes to the detriment of practicality. Environment be damned and let’s get it out of sight once it is ugly. If there was any country to lead a full on plastic bag ban you would think it would be Japan just given the heavy reliance on imports.
- hguhghuff 8y agoGotta love it when you go to the supermarket and the cashier “double bags” your plastic wrapped product.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jor-el 8y agoIts very much same in Singapore as well. In supermarket, more often than not, cashier puts one item in one plastic bag, so if you are buying a weeks grocery, you easily get 10-12 plastic bags just like that. The vegetables are pre-packed covered with plastic. Some fruits are packed with another harder plastic - apart from the laminated plastic. And the thing that bothered me the most is during chinese new year, each mandarin is covered in plastic individually. Why do you want to cover each mandarin, for a fruit which already has a thick peel!! With developed countries, with all educated residents, are finding hard to curb plastic use (or lack of effort), it looks humanity is still some distance away to make a serious dent to use of plastic overall.
- k0t0n0 8y agowithin India, we use lots of Plastic bags. GOV of India tried to ban it so many times but public and shop owners are not willing to give it up. on other hands, GOV doesn't oppose big corporations producing consumer food packages using plastic. This is really a big issue where I live (animals eating plastic; big dump of plastic in public place). in my view, we should totally ban plastic bags for consumers and for corporation usage.
- paulstovell 8y agoAs I read this I was reminded of how trees in prehistoric times piled up because no bacteria had evolved to eat them yet: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/01/07/the-fantastically-strange-origin-of-most-coal-on-earth/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/01... We don’t feel so bad about using paper or wood because it now biodegrades, but if those organisms hadn’t evolved, we’d be worried about wood and paper the same way we worry about plastic. This article suggests there are some bacteria that has already evolved to eat kinds of plastic: http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actually-work-a-chemist-explains-95233 http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actua... Maybe in a few decades with more research, we’ll have solutions for plastic that don’t involve sending it across the world?
- sushid 8y agoTo me, that's the equivalent of not doing anything about global warming because future technology may be able to trivially solve the issue. Sure, that may be a possibility, but what happens to humanity if that's not the case?
- ndnxhs 8y agoIf plastic was biodegradable that would be pretty much the same thing as burning it. We need to keep it underground in the form of oil
- dbg31415 8y agoI thought these were just depressing... but yeah, likely more truthful. Pick one, they're all just as depressing as the next. * Adam Ruins Everything - The Corporate Conspiracy to Blame You for Their Trash - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koqNm_TgOZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koqNm_TgOZk * Penn & Teller - Recycling - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac96QNtRmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jac96QNtRmU * Debunking recycling paper (P&T segment) - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czKngCUASM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czKngCUASM * The shocking scale of our waste - and the myth of recycling | Irene Rompa | TEDxMidAtlantic - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTgTWLYCeOU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTgTWLYCeOU
- stunt 8y agoPositive move. It is not like India is on a different planet. Plastic waste export limitations will force us to find better solutions including reducing plastic waste.
- mjevans 8y agoSingle stream recycling is a really poor idea. A better set of ideas that might actually help: Reduce - as suggested elsewhere, eliminate parts of the packaging that aren't strictly required (outer seals, etc). Reuse * Create a set of standardized, rugged, containers that seal around foods. * Actually use them to pack foods in standard containers. * Which are then returned for cleaning and reuse. Recycle * Many bins, one for each type of allowed recyclable plastic. * Also a compost bin * Which would be different from a yard waste bin * Make sure the reusable containers are also easy to recycle. * Also, make an easy to read (human and machine) /large/ 'number' label. Ban difficult to recycle things such as plastic fused to paper.
- titzer 8y ago> * Create a set of standardized, rugged, containers that seal around foods. We used to actually have this: it was wooden/plastic crates and boxes, pallets, burlap bags, and glass milk/juice/beer bottles. We're moving backwards, and it's all due to economics. Reuse of those materials back then was motivated by the cost and difficulty of producing those containers. It simply was not economically feasible to produce a single-use crate or glass bottle--too expensive. Economics and the wonder-engine of capitalistic progress has now given us the ability to manufacture trillions of single-use containers for literally less than a penny a piece. It's just far cheaper and less of a headache to just produce, wrap, and then toss the waste. No one wants to deal with all the niggling details of carting bottles back and forth, washing, them, filling them. Just too much of a pain in the ass. So we get what we have now. Clean, no fuss, no mess. Just toss it. In many ways, our older economies--full of poor working saps who had to lug bottles back and forth--was far more sustainable than today's system. But today we're rich and lazy and awash in our own trash. Progress!
- MandieD 8y agoGermany and neighbors still do some deposit bottles and jars, and at least in Germany, are better at the re-intake than they were 15 years ago. Unfortunately, we've also lied to ourselves about our Gelbesacks (packaging recycling bags) to the extent that there are a lot more things in single-use containers and a lot of fruit and veggies are in pre-weighed, plastic-wrapped packages.
- mschuster91 8y agoScientifical question: most plastics can be dissolved using acetone or other solvents. What keeps us from simply doing what von Laue and Franck did (dissolving their Nobel prize medals in aqua regia to hide them from the Nazis), just not with gold medals but with plastics?