6 ms·

Good. No one else plays this deceptive game, cherry-picking individual costs of ownership. You can advertise (but not promise!) expected savings, but pretending

by jdashg 8y ago

Good. No one else plays this deceptive game, cherry-picking individual costs of ownership. You can advertise (but not promise!) expected savings, but pretending this reduces the price of the car is deceptive.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pooya13 8y ago
> you can advertise (but not promise!) Did you miss the title of the article? They are trying to stop Tesla from advertising the fact.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Did you miss the title of the article? You really shouldn't ask that, since you seem to have missed it. > They are trying to stop Tesla from advertising the fact. No, they are trying to stop them from advertising the gas savings in the price, not to stop advertising the gas savings at all. That is, they want Tesla to stop advertising something other than the actual price as the price.
  - pooya13 8y ago
    Then I guess you should be more specific about what kind of advertising you approve.
    - fwip 8y ago
      They started off by saying "Good." (agreeing with the decision) and then explaining what they feel is okay and what isn't. I'm not sure how more clear you wanted them to be.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  They're not stopping Tesla from advertising gas savings, they're stopping them from pre-subtracting it in the advertised price of the car.
  - ehnto 8y ago
    Makes sense. Advertising the price as the amount that will come out of your pocket is important, and it's coercive to do otherwise. It's the same way for most consumer products, no reason cars should be any different. There are ways to advertise the savings that won't be coercive. By coercive I mean getting you in the door and beginning the sales process when you otherwise would not have.
    - cma 8y ago
      Ironically, many governments dictate that you can't include government charges like sales tax in price advertisements.
      - FireBeyond 8y ago
        Where? The US/Canada? Most other countries I've lived in/visited require the price advertised to be inclusive of all taxes.
        benj111 8y ago
        Agreed. In the UK you're skating on thin ice if you advertise to consumers, sales tax free prices, partially on the basis it looks like tax evasion. Plus the principle of being able to pay the advertised price. Now its slightly different in shops for the trade where the pre-tax price is front and centre, the post tax price does still need to be displayed though I think.
        fyfy18 8y ago
        This is an EU wide directive. The price advertised should be inclusive of all taxes and additional charges. It is so that the buyer (consumer or business) has clear information about exactly how much something will cost them, and so they can compare prices to other suppliers. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri...
colordrops 8y ago
Let's be honest though, is anyone fooled by this? If you are plopping down ~50k for a car you should read the text directly on their first. It says the full price as well as the price minus savings in gas, in the same font size. I get it, it's tacky, but it's not like hidden fine-print and fees 10 pages into a contract.
- harperlee 8y ago
  Yes. This fools people. If you look 5 advertisements while flipping a magazine or driving through a road, and only tesla does this, you end up with the idea that they are cheaper. It hurts comparability. They should not be confusing people about the retail price of the car.
  - ginnungagap 8y ago
    For another recent example Ryanair is being fined in Italy not because their practice of not including the hand luggage in the price of a ticket is illegal, but because it hurts comparability with other airlines
- benj111 8y ago
  The screen shot in the article just shows an asterisk after the price. Theres a further complication in that most countries offer incentives for buying EVs, so you could legitimately think its one of those that Tesla is helpful illustrating for you. Finally Europe has decent consumer protections, so the price advertised should be the price payable, and people expect that.
- tachyonbeam 8y ago
  I've been a Tesla shareholder since 2016, and I think the German government is right. I sincerely hope Tesla drops this, not just in Germany but worldwide. The question isn't "is anyone fooled by this anyway?", it's "why is Tesla using deceptive practices?". IMO, they should feel free to point out cost savings somewhere, but they should not fudge guestimated values into the first price they show you. It's not just tacky, it's bullshit. Energy cost and tax savings vary by region and based on your individual situation, your driving habits, etc. Tax refunds do not affect the cost you have to pay for a car upfront. Elon Musk is an engineer at heart, and I feel like he should know better. Doing things like this loses them the respect of a lot of people.
just_one_time_ 8y ago
At the same time they are taking away free charging, seems like a double lie.

by jdashg 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pooya13 8y ago

> you can advertise (but not promise!) Did you miss the title of the article? They are trying to stop Tesla from advertising the fact.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Did you miss the title of the article? You really shouldn't ask that, since you seem to have missed it. > They are trying to stop Tesla from advertising the fact. No, they are trying to stop them from advertising the gas savings in the price, not to stop advertising the gas savings at all. That is, they want Tesla to stop advertising something other than the actual price as the price.
- pooya13 8y ago
  Then I guess you should be more specific about what kind of advertising you approve.
  - fwip 8y ago
    They started off by saying "Good." (agreeing with the decision) and then explaining what they feel is okay and what isn't. I'm not sure how more clear you wanted them to be.
wlesieutre 8y ago
They're not stopping Tesla from advertising gas savings, they're stopping them from pre-subtracting it in the advertised price of the car.
- ehnto 8y ago
  Makes sense. Advertising the price as the amount that will come out of your pocket is important, and it's coercive to do otherwise. It's the same way for most consumer products, no reason cars should be any different. There are ways to advertise the savings that won't be coercive. By coercive I mean getting you in the door and beginning the sales process when you otherwise would not have.
  - cma 8y ago
    Ironically, many governments dictate that you can't include government charges like sales tax in price advertisements.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      Where? The US/Canada? Most other countries I've lived in/visited require the price advertised to be inclusive of all taxes.
      - benj111 8y ago
        Agreed. In the UK you're skating on thin ice if you advertise to consumers, sales tax free prices, partially on the basis it looks like tax evasion. Plus the principle of being able to pay the advertised price. Now its slightly different in shops for the trade where the pre-tax price is front and centre, the post tax price does still need to be displayed though I think.
        fyfy18 8y ago
        This is an EU wide directive. The price advertised should be inclusive of all taxes and additional charges. It is so that the buyer (consumer or business) has clear information about exactly how much something will cost them, and so they can compare prices to other suppliers. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri...

colordrops 8y ago

Let's be honest though, is anyone fooled by this? If you are plopping down ~50k for a car you should read the text directly on their first. It says the full price as well as the price minus savings in gas, in the same font size. I get it, it's tacky, but it's not like hidden fine-print and fees 10 pages into a contract.

harperlee 8y ago
Yes. This fools people. If you look 5 advertisements while flipping a magazine or driving through a road, and only tesla does this, you end up with the idea that they are cheaper. It hurts comparability. They should not be confusing people about the retail price of the car.
- ginnungagap 8y ago
  For another recent example Ryanair is being fined in Italy not because their practice of not including the hand luggage in the price of a ticket is illegal, but because it hurts comparability with other airlines
benj111 8y ago
The screen shot in the article just shows an asterisk after the price. Theres a further complication in that most countries offer incentives for buying EVs, so you could legitimately think its one of those that Tesla is helpful illustrating for you. Finally Europe has decent consumer protections, so the price advertised should be the price payable, and people expect that.
tachyonbeam 8y ago
I've been a Tesla shareholder since 2016, and I think the German government is right. I sincerely hope Tesla drops this, not just in Germany but worldwide. The question isn't "is anyone fooled by this anyway?", it's "why is Tesla using deceptive practices?". IMO, they should feel free to point out cost savings somewhere, but they should not fudge guestimated values into the first price they show you. It's not just tacky, it's bullshit. Energy cost and tax savings vary by region and based on your individual situation, your driving habits, etc. Tax refunds do not affect the cost you have to pay for a car upfront. Elon Musk is an engineer at heart, and I feel like he should know better. Doing things like this loses them the respect of a lot of people.

just_one_time_ 8y ago

At the same time they are taking away free charging, seems like a double lie.