4 ms·

ETIAS does not affect freedom of movement within the EU in any way whatsoever. It is about non-EU cizitens travelling into the EU (well, the Schengen Zone). Th

by rmind 8y ago

ETIAS does not affect freedom of movement within the EU in any way whatsoever. It is about non-EU cizitens travelling into the EU (well, the Schengen Zone). The barriers between the EU and other countries already exist, just to a different degree. There are certain benefits of ETIAS, especially concerning the security and illegal migration, as explained by a video linked in a neighbouring post. US is already imposing ESTA on EU citizens: why should EU give in and not apply the reciprocal measures?

benj111 8y ago
I know ETIAS doesn't affect intra EU travel. My point was we have both experienced the benefits of unencumbered travel (within the EU), why then support raising barriers to other nations? Security and illegal migration seem dubious reasons to introduce (not) visas for the US. Is there a problem with illegal immigrants from the US? Terrorists? So then we're just left with tit for tat politics. I for one would like my politicians to be more mature (ha!). This is how trade wars, and worse start. I personally would like to lead by example, be the better man, and be a good neighbour. If others don't wish to, that's their problem.
- tapppi 8y ago
  ETIAS applies to all travelers to the EU from all visa-free countries. So it isn't a "punishment" for US specifically. It is a generic change to how EU handles visa-free travel. One might argue that e-visas (which the ETIAS is) are bad for free movement of people in general. In my opinion if ETIAS (and similar systems in other countries) make traditional visas move toward obsolescence by allowing traditional-visa-free travel, it is a good stepping stone to "more free" movement. True free movement would then be reciprocal, i.e. EU-US travel would not require either ESTA or ETIAS. Basically that would mean US would be part of Schengen Area or a new similar structure. The discord about US requiring visas from 5 EU countries is a separate issue that might bring other actual "tit for tat" measures if not resolved.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Visas don't have to apply to all nations. The same would seem to be true of ETIAS. So the principle still stands. Why increase barriers to those wanting to travel to the the EU? Yes the stated reasons (illegal immigration, security) will apply to many countries, but that shouldn't be the default. The default should be unencumbered travel, unless there's been shown to be a good reason why that shouldn't be the case.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    The US’ ESTA system exempts Canadians. So such systems are definitely capable of picking and choosing.

by rmind 8y ago

benj111 8y ago

I know ETIAS doesn't affect intra EU travel. My point was we have both experienced the benefits of unencumbered travel (within the EU), why then support raising barriers to other nations? Security and illegal migration seem dubious reasons to introduce (not) visas for the US. Is there a problem with illegal immigrants from the US? Terrorists? So then we're just left with tit for tat politics. I for one would like my politicians to be more mature (ha!). This is how trade wars, and worse start. I personally would like to lead by example, be the better man, and be a good neighbour. If others don't wish to, that's their problem.

tapppi 8y ago
ETIAS applies to all travelers to the EU from all visa-free countries. So it isn't a "punishment" for US specifically. It is a generic change to how EU handles visa-free travel. One might argue that e-visas (which the ETIAS is) are bad for free movement of people in general. In my opinion if ETIAS (and similar systems in other countries) make traditional visas move toward obsolescence by allowing traditional-visa-free travel, it is a good stepping stone to "more free" movement. True free movement would then be reciprocal, i.e. EU-US travel would not require either ESTA or ETIAS. Basically that would mean US would be part of Schengen Area or a new similar structure. The discord about US requiring visas from 5 EU countries is a separate issue that might bring other actual "tit for tat" measures if not resolved.
- benj111 8y ago
  Visas don't have to apply to all nations. The same would seem to be true of ETIAS. So the principle still stands. Why increase barriers to those wanting to travel to the the EU? Yes the stated reasons (illegal immigration, security) will apply to many countries, but that shouldn't be the default. The default should be unencumbered travel, unless there's been shown to be a good reason why that shouldn't be the case.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  The US’ ESTA system exempts Canadians. So such systems are definitely capable of picking and choosing.