4 ms·

Is anyone surprised by these leaks? I think most people assume this is happening.

by geowwy 8y ago

morsch 8y ago
Yeah, but now we know. People said the same things when Snowden leaked PRISM etc.
itronitron 8y ago
Yes, this actually surprised me, but I guess some people really don't mind (or just didn't think about) having to testify before Congress in order to justify their actions.
adventured 8y ago
The Bush and Obama Administrations were extraordinarily aggressive in expanding US espionage action domestically. Obama was infamously aggressive in targeting the press. The notion that they'd do all of that and not begin tracking journalists in a comprehensive fashion was an improbable scenario. The first leaks by Snowden should have prompted the press to assume it. It's why so many of the major media outlets have gone to increased lengths to establish more robust communication approaches for secrecy of contact. Surely they all knew the surveillence systems had been dramatically broadened and that they'd be a key observation point for domestic intel, leaks, sources. The only thing different since the Nixon era (it really goes even further back), is the scale and efficiency at which they can do the tracking through automation; nothing ever changed about the targeting.
- XorNot 8y ago
  Is there evidence this specific tracking started under a previous administration? Or must we first ensure that we deflect blame from the current administration, notably characterised by ongoing violent rhetoric about journalists, including a surprising effort to ignore the government sanctioned murder of a journalist by an "ally".
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    It’s not the same but comes to mind in the discussion: “embedded reporters”. They have been around a long time, arguably including World War Two, but were taken to some pretty extreme levels in the ‘03 Gulf War. The cosy relationship is corrupting and completely unhelpful, with state control and propaganda pushed by supposedly independent journalists who are contracted to say-no-evil. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/media/opinion/embedded-journalism-a-distorted-view-of-war-2141072.html%3famp https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/me... https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2003/nov/06/broadcasting.Iraqandthemedia https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/200...
  - creaghpatr 8y ago
    Obama spied on Sharyl Atkinson is pretty well known.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      It's not, because it never made sense. She was a nobody and the things she reported on where reported by others. One of her allegations of hacking was a stuck delete key [1] [1] https://www.vox.com/2014/10/31/7140247/the-right-is-convinced-obama-hacked-sharyl-attkisson-over-benghazi https://www.vox.com/2014/10/31/7140247/the-right-is-convince...
      - 18pfsmt 8y ago
        You are correct about that case, but others are well-documented, specifically regarding the AP and James Rosen: Dana Milbank of the Washington Post stated: "The Rosen affair is as flagrant an assault on civil liberties as anything done by George W. Bush’s administration, and it uses technology to silence critics in a way Richard Nixon could only have dreamed of. To treat a reporter as a criminal for doing his job — seeking out information the government doesn’t want made public — deprives Americans of the First Amendment freedom on which all other constitutional rights are based." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_articles_about_the_Department_of_Justice_investigations_of_reporters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_articles_about_the_Depart...
darkpuma 8y ago
I'm not surprised to see somebody here protesting their lack of surprise. Hacker news is not a thriller. If the sensation of surprise is what you seek, then go watch a shitty horror movie with jump scares.
ringaroll 8y ago
It is called normalizing the behavior. When the society accepts this as the new normal, no one will care.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Just because we aren't surprised doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged.
pessimizer 8y ago
I'd be more surprised if they weren't. It's probably just a view on the database that tracks everyone.

Is anyone surprised by these leaks? I think most people assume this is happening.

by geowwy 8y ago

Is anyone surprised by these leaks? I think most people assume this is happening.

morsch 8y ago

Yeah, but now we know. People said the same things when Snowden leaked PRISM etc.

itronitron 8y ago

Yes, this actually surprised me, but I guess some people really don't mind (or just didn't think about) having to testify before Congress in order to justify their actions.

adventured 8y ago

The Bush and Obama Administrations were extraordinarily aggressive in expanding US espionage action domestically. Obama was infamously aggressive in targeting the press. The notion that they'd do all of that and not begin tracking journalists in a comprehensive fashion was an improbable scenario. The first leaks by Snowden should have prompted the press to assume it. It's why so many of the major media outlets have gone to increased lengths to establish more robust communication approaches for secrecy of contact. Surely they all knew the surveillence systems had been dramatically broadened and that they'd be a key observation point for domestic intel, leaks, sources. The only thing different since the Nixon era (it really goes even further back), is the scale and efficiency at which they can do the tracking through automation; nothing ever changed about the targeting.

XorNot 8y ago
Is there evidence this specific tracking started under a previous administration? Or must we first ensure that we deflect blame from the current administration, notably characterised by ongoing violent rhetoric about journalists, including a surprising effort to ignore the government sanctioned murder of a journalist by an "ally".
- lostlogin 8y ago
  It’s not the same but comes to mind in the discussion: “embedded reporters”. They have been around a long time, arguably including World War Two, but were taken to some pretty extreme levels in the ‘03 Gulf War. The cosy relationship is corrupting and completely unhelpful, with state control and propaganda pushed by supposedly independent journalists who are contracted to say-no-evil. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/media/opinion/embedded-journalism-a-distorted-view-of-war-2141072.html%3famp https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/me... https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2003/nov/06/broadcasting.Iraqandthemedia https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/200...
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  Obama spied on Sharyl Atkinson is pretty well known.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    It's not, because it never made sense. She was a nobody and the things she reported on where reported by others. One of her allegations of hacking was a stuck delete key [1] [1] https://www.vox.com/2014/10/31/7140247/the-right-is-convinced-obama-hacked-sharyl-attkisson-over-benghazi https://www.vox.com/2014/10/31/7140247/the-right-is-convince...
    - 18pfsmt 8y ago
      You are correct about that case, but others are well-documented, specifically regarding the AP and James Rosen: Dana Milbank of the Washington Post stated: "The Rosen affair is as flagrant an assault on civil liberties as anything done by George W. Bush’s administration, and it uses technology to silence critics in a way Richard Nixon could only have dreamed of. To treat a reporter as a criminal for doing his job — seeking out information the government doesn’t want made public — deprives Americans of the First Amendment freedom on which all other constitutional rights are based." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_articles_about_the_Department_of_Justice_investigations_of_reporters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_articles_about_the_Depart...

darkpuma 8y ago

I'm not surprised to see somebody here protesting their lack of surprise. Hacker news is not a thriller. If the sensation of surprise is what you seek, then go watch a shitty horror movie with jump scares.

ringaroll 8y ago

It is called normalizing the behavior. When the society accepts this as the new normal, no one will care.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Just because we aren't surprised doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged.

pessimizer 8y ago

I'd be more surprised if they weren't. It's probably just a view on the database that tracks everyone.