5 ms·

It's difficult to find humanely raised meat? I just go to the farmer's market and buy it straight from the farmer who raises grass-fed free range cows. If I wou

by lambda 16y ago

It's difficult to find humanely raised meat? I just go to the farmer's market and buy it straight from the farmer who raises grass-fed free range cows. If I would like to verify, I can head to her farm and see how she raises the cows myself. Or I buy fish that are caught in sustainable ways, which have grown in their natural habitat and not subjected to any suffering beyond the catch (which is a necessary part of consuming them). Yes, humanely raised meat (and milk, eggs, other animal products) is more expensive, but it's also tastier, and it feels good know the people who have grown and raised the food you eat. I balance out the extra expense, and impact of raising animals, by eating meat or fish only about 2 or 3 times per week; the rest of the time, I pick vegetarian options. That also makes it easier for me when dining with people; I leave my couple of omnivorous meals for the weekend, so I can have whatever's being served without having to cause extra trouble for my hosts.

cjbprime 16y ago
I agree with most of what you said (although fish are never killed humanely, so I'm not up for that), but I don't own a car and I live in a city -- the difficulty involved in heading to a farm to see how their animals are raised is just large enough that I don't think the reward is worth it for me. I don't have any quarrel with someone who finds it an acceptable choice, though.
- tptacek 16y ago
  You might be surprised how easy it is to get local farm-raised meat delivered or handed off via a local restaurant or purveyor. It's totally worth it.
- nkurz 16y ago
  Your "never" makes me uneasy. As a fisherman, I've often killed fish as humanely as possible. Many others do the same. And while commercial standards are likely very poor, for certain species great care is taken regarding the quality of the meat with the side effect of relatively humane treatment. For example, tuna are often stunned and pithed using the "Taniguchi Method": http://wwwx.spc.int/coastfish/Fishing/Sashimi_E/Sashimi.pdf http://wwwx.spc.int/coastfish/Fishing/Sashimi_E/Sashimi.pdf
  - cjbprime 16y ago
    > As a fisherman, I've often killed fish as humanely as possible. Thanks! That's a good link. Yes, I should have said "Commercial fish being caught in quantities large enough that you aren't dealing with each one individually immediately (so, using nets, for example) are not killed humanely". I appreciate the correction.
mml 16y ago
The "tastier" organic myth is a myth in at least some cases. Double blind taste tests of 2 halves of the same product reveal that the half presented as "organic" is often chosen as being "tastier", despite being identical to it's other "non organic" half. IMHO, he organic food "movement" is marketing targeted at the guilty conscience of the well-heeled consumer of organic foods.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Staydecent 16y ago
  lambda never mentions anything about Organic. Organic is not the same as humanely raised meat, nor hormone free. And, IMHO, Organic standards are so varied and in many cases silly that the green label isn't even a tell for a desirable product by my terms. In my experience, texture is very noticeable when comparing "supermarket" meat vs locally raised, hormone-free meat. As far as Veganism goes: I rather not take a vitamin supplement--it seems unnatural. LOL>
- alaithea 16y ago
  Every time I buy normal, mass-market chicken or eggs that are not in some way organic/cage-free/free-range/nataural, I am so disappointed in the result that I vow never to buy it again (until I'm sucked in by some sale months later). For me, the difference is too striking to be only a placebo effect of sorts.
anthonyb 16y ago
If you live in Australia, you can also get kangaroo in most supermarkets. They're taken from the wild and killed with a high-powered rifle shot to the head (plus they're a native animal == less enivronmental damage) so they're about as guilt-free as you can get and still be eating meat.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- lox 16y ago
  I was under the impression that they are farmed now, although they are much friendlier to the environment per-head than cattle are.
  - anthonyb 16y ago
    Kind of hard to farm them, since they can jump fences pretty easily, plus you have to compete with hunters: http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RJ9830035.htm http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RJ9830035.htm
lucasjung 16y ago
I believe that the most humane way you can get your meat is, in many places, to hunt for it. Because humans have reduced habitats and/or eliminated other predators in many places, wildlife management agencies have to use human hunting as a tool to keep populations at sustainable levels. Example: if there is enough food in a given area for 100 deer to survive the winter, but there are 200 deer, that doesn't mean that half of the deer will starve to death before spring--it means that all of them will eat quite well for the first half of the winter, after which food will become extremely scarce and most of them will starve to death. Wildlife management agencies constantly monitor population levels in order to determine how much of the population needs to be culled each season in order for the remainder to survive. Bag limits or tag quotas are set accordingly. I currently live in a place with so much deer overpopulation that local hunters never kill enough each fall, so professional hunters have to be hired each year to get the herds down to a sustainable size. If you hunt with respect for your game and only take shots which are likely to be clean, you will give your kill a quick death instead of a very likely slow and painful death by starvation. Also, the life it would have lived up until that moment would have been about as humane as possible. No matter how well a farmer treats his cattle or chickens, the fact is that they were raised for the express purpose of being slaughtered. Wild game is a natural part of the ecosystem that is only killed out of necessity to keep that system in balance. Either way, an animal is dying so that you can eat. I certainly enjoy beef, chicken, lamb, and other farm-raised animals, and eat far more of those than of things I've killed myself. I also realize that many people simply would not want to hunt. However, for any who have never tried it, and who are looking for ways to make their meat consumption more humane and ethical, they should consider giving it a try.
- zatara 16y ago
  If you are into hunting, I think you should make things fair for both sides. Leave the gun at home and try something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
  - slackito 16y ago
    Why should we go for "fairness" when hunting for food? Using our brains isn't fair? Animals won't show any restraint when using their strengths to kill any weaker prey.
Xodarap 16y ago
It's very hard to find humanely slaughtered meat. To quote Foer, who in turn was citing a review of some audits of slaughterhouses (emphasis in the original): >[Grandin's report found] deliberate acts of cruelty occuring on a regular basis at 32 percent of the plants [slaughterhouses] she surveyed during announced visits in the United States. It's such a shocking statistic I had to read it three times. Deliberate acts, occurring on a regular basis, witnessed by an auditor - witnessed during announced audits that gave the slaughterhouse time to clean up the worst problems. What about cruelties that weren't witnessed? And what about accidents, which must have been far more common?

by lambda 16y ago

cjbprime 16y ago

I agree with most of what you said (although fish are never killed humanely, so I'm not up for that), but I don't own a car and I live in a city -- the difficulty involved in heading to a farm to see how their animals are raised is just large enough that I don't think the reward is worth it for me. I don't have any quarrel with someone who finds it an acceptable choice, though.

tptacek 16y ago
You might be surprised how easy it is to get local farm-raised meat delivered or handed off via a local restaurant or purveyor. It's totally worth it.
nkurz 16y ago
Your "never" makes me uneasy. As a fisherman, I've often killed fish as humanely as possible. Many others do the same. And while commercial standards are likely very poor, for certain species great care is taken regarding the quality of the meat with the side effect of relatively humane treatment. For example, tuna are often stunned and pithed using the "Taniguchi Method": http://wwwx.spc.int/coastfish/Fishing/Sashimi_E/Sashimi.pdf http://wwwx.spc.int/coastfish/Fishing/Sashimi_E/Sashimi.pdf
- cjbprime 16y ago
  > As a fisherman, I've often killed fish as humanely as possible. Thanks! That's a good link. Yes, I should have said "Commercial fish being caught in quantities large enough that you aren't dealing with each one individually immediately (so, using nets, for example) are not killed humanely". I appreciate the correction.

mml 16y ago

The "tastier" organic myth is a myth in at least some cases. Double blind taste tests of 2 halves of the same product reveal that the half presented as "organic" is often chosen as being "tastier", despite being identical to it's other "non organic" half. IMHO, he organic food "movement" is marketing targeted at the guilty conscience of the well-heeled consumer of organic foods.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
Staydecent 16y ago
lambda never mentions anything about Organic. Organic is not the same as humanely raised meat, nor hormone free. And, IMHO, Organic standards are so varied and in many cases silly that the green label isn't even a tell for a desirable product by my terms. In my experience, texture is very noticeable when comparing "supermarket" meat vs locally raised, hormone-free meat. As far as Veganism goes: I rather not take a vitamin supplement--it seems unnatural. LOL>
alaithea 16y ago
Every time I buy normal, mass-market chicken or eggs that are not in some way organic/cage-free/free-range/nataural, I am so disappointed in the result that I vow never to buy it again (until I'm sucked in by some sale months later). For me, the difference is too striking to be only a placebo effect of sorts.

anthonyb 16y ago

If you live in Australia, you can also get kangaroo in most supermarkets. They're taken from the wild and killed with a high-powered rifle shot to the head (plus they're a native animal == less enivronmental damage) so they're about as guilt-free as you can get and still be eating meat.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
lox 16y ago
I was under the impression that they are farmed now, although they are much friendlier to the environment per-head than cattle are.
- anthonyb 16y ago
  Kind of hard to farm them, since they can jump fences pretty easily, plus you have to compete with hunters: http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RJ9830035.htm http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RJ9830035.htm

lucasjung 16y ago

I believe that the most humane way you can get your meat is, in many places, to hunt for it. Because humans have reduced habitats and/or eliminated other predators in many places, wildlife management agencies have to use human hunting as a tool to keep populations at sustainable levels. Example: if there is enough food in a given area for 100 deer to survive the winter, but there are 200 deer, that doesn't mean that half of the deer will starve to death before spring--it means that all of them will eat quite well for the first half of the winter, after which food will become extremely scarce and most of them will starve to death. Wildlife management agencies constantly monitor population levels in order to determine how much of the population needs to be culled each season in order for the remainder to survive. Bag limits or tag quotas are set accordingly. I currently live in a place with so much deer overpopulation that local hunters never kill enough each fall, so professional hunters have to be hired each year to get the herds down to a sustainable size. If you hunt with respect for your game and only take shots which are likely to be clean, you will give your kill a quick death instead of a very likely slow and painful death by starvation. Also, the life it would have lived up until that moment would have been about as humane as possible. No matter how well a farmer treats his cattle or chickens, the fact is that they were raised for the express purpose of being slaughtered. Wild game is a natural part of the ecosystem that is only killed out of necessity to keep that system in balance. Either way, an animal is dying so that you can eat. I certainly enjoy beef, chicken, lamb, and other farm-raised animals, and eat far more of those than of things I've killed myself. I also realize that many people simply would not want to hunt. However, for any who have never tried it, and who are looking for ways to make their meat consumption more humane and ethical, they should consider giving it a try.

zatara 16y ago
If you are into hunting, I think you should make things fair for both sides. Leave the gun at home and try something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
- slackito 16y ago
  Why should we go for "fairness" when hunting for food? Using our brains isn't fair? Animals won't show any restraint when using their strengths to kill any weaker prey.

Xodarap 16y ago

It's very hard to find humanely slaughtered meat. To quote Foer, who in turn was citing a review of some audits of slaughterhouses (emphasis in the original): >[Grandin's report found] deliberate acts of cruelty occuring on a regular basis at 32 percent of the plants [slaughterhouses] she surveyed during announced visits in the United States. It's such a shocking statistic I had to read it three times. Deliberate acts, occurring on a regular basis, witnessed by an auditor - witnessed during announced audits that gave the slaughterhouse time to clean up the worst problems. What about cruelties that weren't witnessed? And what about accidents, which must have been far more common?