7 ms·

NSA is a signals intelligence agency, so it makes sense that they would be known for cyber espionage.

by navbaker 8y ago

ldiracdelta 8y ago
Against their own people in violation of the Constitution?
- evolvedcleaning 8y ago
  Putting away meth dealers supercedes strict adherence to the constitution, by far, IMO, even if the police have to break the law to put the bad guys away. (Parallel reconstruction etc) The founding fathers didn’t have any conception for our information society. Extra judicial activity, With the corresponding regulatory body, is necessary to maintain parity with a morphing technological society
  - k988dfgj_s 8y ago
    Does it? Why do we have this venerated piece of paper then constantly paraded in front of us like it means anything then? Either it is a foundation and a supreme law, or it is not. I am not convinced that catching meth dealers is greater than a supreme law of the land.. or worth the cost of basically tossing entire framework of the country outside the window. edit: added more pompous language
  - komali2 8y ago
    >Putting away meth dealers supercedes strict adherence to the constitution, by far, IMO, even if the police have to break the law to put the bad guys away. (Parallel reconstruction etc) Ethically, I disagree with your argument. See: unlawful asset theft by police departments, which the supreme Court recently confirmed is illegal. But from a legal standpoint your argument doesn't hold water. The Constitution is THE binding legal document of the USA, from which literally every aspect of the US government, and thus justice system, derives authority. There is nothing but strict adherence to the Constitution, trying to work outside it might work for a bit but will end up with someone standing before the supreme Court to answer for it.
    - evolvedcleaning 8y ago
      I freely admitted that breaking the law is an appropriate means to an end in some cases. Again imo. Unchecked civil forfeiture was not part of my argument. I disagree that common people should have perfectly secure comm technology. I disagree with Snowden actions and politics.
      - k988dfgj_s 8y ago
        Are you in law in enforcement by any chance?
        dang 8y ago
        Please don't get personal in comments here. Also, could you please stop creating accounts for every comment or two you post? This is in the site guidelines, and we ban accounts that do it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but should have some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. There are legit uses for throwaways, just not routinely. Lots more explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=by:dang%20community%20identity https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
        k988dfgj_s 8y ago
        Sorry for that. I will be moving to a more permanent handle soon.
        dang 8y ago
        Appreciated!
        evolvedcleaning 8y ago
        Nah I’m an old college dropout
  - craftinator 8y ago
    What an aweful thing to say. Today it's meth dealers, tomorrow it's Koran owners, then gun owners, people of a certain color, people with the nose of a certain length, etc... We stick to the Constitution because it protects us from crazy invasive government.
- drawnwren 8y ago
  You're trying to present a completely different argument but presented no justification.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  The phone metadata program has been shut down, and the portion of that program that was unconstitutional was shut down years ago.
  - kelnos 8y ago
    ... so far as we know. I can't say that I trust the NSA to follow court orders. At worst, I would expect them to just spool up another, similar project with higher levels of secrecy. Is this paranoid/conspiracy-theory-esque? Maybe a little, but I honestly think it's reasonable to consider this in-character for the NSA.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      > ... so far as we know. This is easy to verify by asking the phone companies. > Is this paranoid/conspiracy-theory-esque? Yes. It's absolutely conspiracy theory nonsense.
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        Except it's not - known bad actors should be treated as such. It isn't called being paranoid it is called not being dangerously naive - would you invest in a convicted scammer?
      - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
        To be fair, you’re saying exactly what was claimed before Snowden proved that it wasn’t nonsense, but day to day reality. Good luck trying to unspill that milk.
        lern_too_spel 8y ago
        No, the phone metadata program was known about long before Snowden. The Bush administration never denied it, only saying that their lawyers considered what they were doing legal and that the appropriate oversight committees had been read in. https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-n...

NSA is a signals intelligence agency, so it makes sense that they would be known for cyber espionage.

ldiracdelta 8y ago

Against their own people in violation of the Constitution?

evolvedcleaning 8y ago
Putting away meth dealers supercedes strict adherence to the constitution, by far, IMO, even if the police have to break the law to put the bad guys away. (Parallel reconstruction etc) The founding fathers didn’t have any conception for our information society. Extra judicial activity, With the corresponding regulatory body, is necessary to maintain parity with a morphing technological society
- k988dfgj_s 8y ago
  Does it? Why do we have this venerated piece of paper then constantly paraded in front of us like it means anything then? Either it is a foundation and a supreme law, or it is not. I am not convinced that catching meth dealers is greater than a supreme law of the land.. or worth the cost of basically tossing entire framework of the country outside the window. edit: added more pompous language
- komali2 8y ago
  >Putting away meth dealers supercedes strict adherence to the constitution, by far, IMO, even if the police have to break the law to put the bad guys away. (Parallel reconstruction etc) Ethically, I disagree with your argument. See: unlawful asset theft by police departments, which the supreme Court recently confirmed is illegal. But from a legal standpoint your argument doesn't hold water. The Constitution is THE binding legal document of the USA, from which literally every aspect of the US government, and thus justice system, derives authority. There is nothing but strict adherence to the Constitution, trying to work outside it might work for a bit but will end up with someone standing before the supreme Court to answer for it.
  - evolvedcleaning 8y ago
    I freely admitted that breaking the law is an appropriate means to an end in some cases. Again imo. Unchecked civil forfeiture was not part of my argument. I disagree that common people should have perfectly secure comm technology. I disagree with Snowden actions and politics.
    - k988dfgj_s 8y ago
      Are you in law in enforcement by any chance?
      - dang 8y ago
        Please don't get personal in comments here. Also, could you please stop creating accounts for every comment or two you post? This is in the site guidelines, and we ban accounts that do it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. HN is a community. Users needn't use their real name, but should have some identity for others to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. There are legit uses for throwaways, just not routinely. Lots more explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=by:dang%20community%20identity https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
        k988dfgj_s 8y ago
        Sorry for that. I will be moving to a more permanent handle soon.
        dang 8y ago
        Appreciated!
      - evolvedcleaning 8y ago
        Nah I’m an old college dropout
- craftinator 8y ago
  What an aweful thing to say. Today it's meth dealers, tomorrow it's Koran owners, then gun owners, people of a certain color, people with the nose of a certain length, etc... We stick to the Constitution because it protects us from crazy invasive government.
drawnwren 8y ago
You're trying to present a completely different argument but presented no justification.
lern_too_spel 8y ago
The phone metadata program has been shut down, and the portion of that program that was unconstitutional was shut down years ago.
- kelnos 8y ago
  ... so far as we know. I can't say that I trust the NSA to follow court orders. At worst, I would expect them to just spool up another, similar project with higher levels of secrecy. Is this paranoid/conspiracy-theory-esque? Maybe a little, but I honestly think it's reasonable to consider this in-character for the NSA.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    > ... so far as we know. This is easy to verify by asking the phone companies. > Is this paranoid/conspiracy-theory-esque? Yes. It's absolutely conspiracy theory nonsense.
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      Except it's not - known bad actors should be treated as such. It isn't called being paranoid it is called not being dangerously naive - would you invest in a convicted scammer?
    - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
      To be fair, you’re saying exactly what was claimed before Snowden proved that it wasn’t nonsense, but day to day reality. Good luck trying to unspill that milk.
      - lern_too_spel 8y ago
        No, the phone metadata program was known about long before Snowden. The Bush administration never denied it, only saying that their lawyers considered what they were doing legal and that the appropriate oversight committees had been read in. https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-n...