4 ms·

The whole emoticon thing have became ridiculous. It's time for Unicode to split and let the kids playing with their images and to focus on more important, textu

The whole emoticon thing have became ridiculous. It's time for Unicode to split and let the kids playing with their images and to focus on more important, textual things. For example the cuneiform block is not detailed enough to be used by scholars.

majewsky 8y ago
Do you think that the committee approving new emojis is qualified to seamlessly transition into discussing the minutiae of cuneiform formatting? It may be a guess on my part, but I'm pretty confident that there are two different (and probably non-overlapping) sets of people working on these two areas.
- MrEldritch 8y ago
  Perhaps Unicode could solve the emoji problem once and for all by providing a mechanism for encoding arbitrary .svgs as multi-kilobyte strings of modifier characters.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Hmm, they did include that block for encoding arbitrary bitmap images. (U+2800)
    - titanix2 8y ago
      U+2800 etc. is for Braille, which is an alphabet. Nothing to do with bitmaps.
      - ygra 8y ago
        I think it was a joke referring to some people using Braille to display black and white images as text, e.g. https://loveeevee.github.io/Dots-Converter/retro.html https://loveeevee.github.io/Dots-Converter/retro.html
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        Yeah. Key to that use is that they didn't pick any specific patterns, they went with every possible combination of 8 dots being present/absent.
      - Someone 8y ago
        Nitpick: the U+2800 block specifically isn’t an alphabet. For example, U+2801 is called “Braille Pattern dots-1”. That’s like calling U+0069 “vertical bar with a dot on top”, rather than “Latin small letter I” (Reason for that is that the dot patterns are heavily overloaded and even language specific. German digits are different from US ones, for example)
  - wongarsu 8y ago
    Emojis started being included in Unicode because they were already in the text encodings used by Japenese SMS. Multi-kb glyphs wouldn't exactly fly in SMS.
    - MrEldritch 8y ago
      I dunno, by wildly extrapolating current trends, by 2050 a typical text-based message will already consume several MB of bloat, Javascript, subliminal advertisements, superliminal advertisements, JSONs encoding XML encoding JSONs encoding base64 encodings of..., 128-bit float variable font settings, prayers to the Packet Gnomes, and more Javascript. In comparison, a few extra kb won't seem so bad.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      Japan has never widely adopted SMS[0]. They have always used proper internet E-mail instead, and more lately, LINE messenger. [0]Once they added global 3G/UMTS support their networks got SMS support, but it's only used by phone number verification services and 2FA, nobody actually sends them. Their homegrown 2G networks before that launched messaging using E-mail.
- titanix2 8y ago
  Of course I know this is two different committees. I'm not talking about that level of separation but splitting Unicode in Unicode proper and the emoji in another standard. Emoji standardisation is orthogonal to encoding present and past writing systems once the set of existing Japanese emoji were encoded. So it became a shit show as soon as the standard created previously non-exiting characters as emoji. In comparison, if you create your own alphabet it won't be included, so newly created emoji should be treated in the same way: being excluded of the standard.
  - nukeop 8y ago
    Until there's an emoji representing every imaginable demographic group engaged in every imaginable activity, the Unicode is not complete.
MrEldritch 8y ago
In what way is the Cuneiform block insufficiently detailed?
- titanix2 8y ago
  Variants. There is a lot of differences in the form of characters given time and place and writing. Scholars want to be able to reproduce text with fidelity so the current standard is insuffisant for them (I heard that from a scholar in that field). In a way it is similar to the issue created by Unihan. Abstractly the unified characters are 'the same' but people still want to see them displayed with a given shape.

majewsky 8y ago

Do you think that the committee approving new emojis is qualified to seamlessly transition into discussing the minutiae of cuneiform formatting? It may be a guess on my part, but I'm pretty confident that there are two different (and probably non-overlapping) sets of people working on these two areas.

MrEldritch 8y ago
Perhaps Unicode could solve the emoji problem once and for all by providing a mechanism for encoding arbitrary .svgs as multi-kilobyte strings of modifier characters.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Hmm, they did include that block for encoding arbitrary bitmap images. (U+2800)
  - titanix2 8y ago
    U+2800 etc. is for Braille, which is an alphabet. Nothing to do with bitmaps.
    - ygra 8y ago
      I think it was a joke referring to some people using Braille to display black and white images as text, e.g. https://loveeevee.github.io/Dots-Converter/retro.html https://loveeevee.github.io/Dots-Converter/retro.html
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        Yeah. Key to that use is that they didn't pick any specific patterns, they went with every possible combination of 8 dots being present/absent.
    - Someone 8y ago
      Nitpick: the U+2800 block specifically isn’t an alphabet. For example, U+2801 is called “Braille Pattern dots-1”. That’s like calling U+0069 “vertical bar with a dot on top”, rather than “Latin small letter I” (Reason for that is that the dot patterns are heavily overloaded and even language specific. German digits are different from US ones, for example)
- wongarsu 8y ago
  Emojis started being included in Unicode because they were already in the text encodings used by Japenese SMS. Multi-kb glyphs wouldn't exactly fly in SMS.
  - MrEldritch 8y ago
    I dunno, by wildly extrapolating current trends, by 2050 a typical text-based message will already consume several MB of bloat, Javascript, subliminal advertisements, superliminal advertisements, JSONs encoding XML encoding JSONs encoding base64 encodings of..., 128-bit float variable font settings, prayers to the Packet Gnomes, and more Javascript. In comparison, a few extra kb won't seem so bad.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    Japan has never widely adopted SMS[0]. They have always used proper internet E-mail instead, and more lately, LINE messenger. [0]Once they added global 3G/UMTS support their networks got SMS support, but it's only used by phone number verification services and 2FA, nobody actually sends them. Their homegrown 2G networks before that launched messaging using E-mail.
titanix2 8y ago
Of course I know this is two different committees. I'm not talking about that level of separation but splitting Unicode in Unicode proper and the emoji in another standard. Emoji standardisation is orthogonal to encoding present and past writing systems once the set of existing Japanese emoji were encoded. So it became a shit show as soon as the standard created previously non-exiting characters as emoji. In comparison, if you create your own alphabet it won't be included, so newly created emoji should be treated in the same way: being excluded of the standard.
- nukeop 8y ago
  Until there's an emoji representing every imaginable demographic group engaged in every imaginable activity, the Unicode is not complete.

MrEldritch 8y ago

In what way is the Cuneiform block insufficiently detailed?

titanix2 8y ago
Variants. There is a lot of differences in the form of characters given time and place and writing. Scholars want to be able to reproduce text with fidelity so the current standard is insuffisant for them (I heard that from a scholar in that field). In a way it is similar to the issue created by Unihan. Abstractly the unified characters are 'the same' but people still want to see them displayed with a given shape.