8 ms·

You’re right, of course. I grew up nearby and spent many summers there as a kid, that’s why I have some connection. But the place is not mine. The reason I bro

by rland 8y ago

You’re right, of course. I grew up nearby and spent many summers there as a kid, that’s why I have some connection. But the place is not mine. The reason I brought it up in the first place is because only within the last 10 years has it really gotten “bad” — completely because of instagram.

treerock 8y ago
I don't think you can blame instagram. These problems are happening all over the world, and I doubt that many of the tourists actually use instagram. I suspect cheap flights and accommodation, changes in fashion (city breaks vs package holidays), more disposable income and free time are all contributing.
- Moru 8y ago
  Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so, to different locations over the world. There is always something that gets noticed on TV or whatever channel exists att he time. And then some entrepreneur uses the hype to make trips with tourists to this location. Just an example: https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots-by-decade/#!The_Catskills_Popular-Destinatons-by-Decade_ https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots...
  - dagw 8y ago
    Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour
    - kbutler 8y ago
      A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage And a lot longer than that: http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-of-tourism#EarlyFormsofTravelandTypesofJourney http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-...
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I think any solution needs to be better than “ it was okay when only rich people could do it, but became a problem when poorer people could do it too”
  - ktjfi 8y ago
    You're making it a class problem when nobody here has mentioned class.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Cheap flights and accommodations were mentioned. Flying is an unusual product that gets cheaper over time. Supply has increased. Airbnb has had an impact on hotel pricing and availability.
      - hopler 8y ago
        Almost every product gets cheaper over time.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        Inflation says otherwise.
        kbutler 8y ago
        Inflation does not change the real cost of goods and services, only the nominal cost.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And the costs of flying and accommodation have actually gone down in real terms.
        darksaints 8y ago
        That's not true outside of theoretical context, much like the concept of efficient markets. In reality, inflation does change the relative real costs due to the mechanism by which inflationary monetary policy is implemented: debt. Products that rely heavily on debt (construction, airlines, etc.) will be affected by inflation differently from products that use little of it (technology, fashion, food service, etc.)
justaguyhere 8y ago
Blaming a website (I don't use Instagram and I am not a fan of it) for people's generally shitty behavior is stretching it, don't you think? It is absolutely possible to travel respectfully (one can't avoid the plane ride, other than that, sure) - respecting the local people, landmarks, wildlife etc. But many travelers lack this basic decency and common sense - even if Instagram died today, these people would continue to behave the same.
- ip26 8y ago
  Instagram is in some sense just a label for the greater phenomenon.
roymurdock 8y ago
you're on to something, but are missing an important part of the equation instagram influencing is now a business. it's advertising without the clear disclaimers or statements for who is paying for that advertising and why a lot of this advertising requires traveling to cool/famous/chic/rugged locations and taking photos or videos there, so that followers feel they are also there, and get to see a cool place through the eyes of their "friends" it's more than just social points gamification, it's a business, it's advertising with real money involved, and these natural settings are becoming the new ad studios that it's cool to shoot in (besides places like venice beach and rue cremieux) and when businesses/money get involved, the natural respect for the environment/others using the space disintegrates in the face of profit and time maximization

by rland 8y ago

treerock 8y ago

I don't think you can blame instagram. These problems are happening all over the world, and I doubt that many of the tourists actually use instagram. I suspect cheap flights and accommodation, changes in fashion (city breaks vs package holidays), more disposable income and free time are all contributing.

Moru 8y ago
Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so, to different locations over the world. There is always something that gets noticed on TV or whatever channel exists att he time. And then some entrepreneur uses the hype to make trips with tourists to this location. Just an example: https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots-by-decade/#!The_Catskills_Popular-Destinatons-by-Decade_ https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots...
- dagw 8y ago
  Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour
  - kbutler 8y ago
    A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage And a lot longer than that: http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-of-tourism#EarlyFormsofTravelandTypesofJourney http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-...
Scoundreller 8y ago
I think any solution needs to be better than “ it was okay when only rich people could do it, but became a problem when poorer people could do it too”
- ktjfi 8y ago
  You're making it a class problem when nobody here has mentioned class.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Cheap flights and accommodations were mentioned. Flying is an unusual product that gets cheaper over time. Supply has increased. Airbnb has had an impact on hotel pricing and availability.
    - hopler 8y ago
      Almost every product gets cheaper over time.
      - Scoundreller 8y ago
        Inflation says otherwise.
        kbutler 8y ago
        Inflation does not change the real cost of goods and services, only the nominal cost.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And the costs of flying and accommodation have actually gone down in real terms.
        darksaints 8y ago
        That's not true outside of theoretical context, much like the concept of efficient markets. In reality, inflation does change the relative real costs due to the mechanism by which inflationary monetary policy is implemented: debt. Products that rely heavily on debt (construction, airlines, etc.) will be affected by inflation differently from products that use little of it (technology, fashion, food service, etc.)

justaguyhere 8y ago

Blaming a website (I don't use Instagram and I am not a fan of it) for people's generally shitty behavior is stretching it, don't you think? It is absolutely possible to travel respectfully (one can't avoid the plane ride, other than that, sure) - respecting the local people, landmarks, wildlife etc. But many travelers lack this basic decency and common sense - even if Instagram died today, these people would continue to behave the same.

ip26 8y ago
Instagram is in some sense just a label for the greater phenomenon.

roymurdock 8y ago

you're on to something, but are missing an important part of the equation instagram influencing is now a business. it's advertising without the clear disclaimers or statements for who is paying for that advertising and why a lot of this advertising requires traveling to cool/famous/chic/rugged locations and taking photos or videos there, so that followers feel they are also there, and get to see a cool place through the eyes of their "friends" it's more than just social points gamification, it's a business, it's advertising with real money involved, and these natural settings are becoming the new ad studios that it's cool to shoot in (besides places like venice beach and rue cremieux) and when businesses/money get involved, the natural respect for the environment/others using the space disintegrates in the face of profit and time maximization