7 ms·

> I have a place that's very dear to me that is similarly being eroded by a crush of visitors. But why is you visiting it okay, but others not? It's like bein

> I have a place that's very dear to me that is similarly being eroded by a crush of visitors. But why is you visiting it okay, but others not? It's like being stuck in traffic and hating on other drivers. In the article's case, it's their homes, so I can see it being annoying. But for landmarks that get popular, I don't see how one is justified in hating on other people going there. It's just a tragedy of the commons. I also dislike how Barcelona and others are handling the problem. Taking tourists' money and harassing them. I say this as someone who grew up in a mountain resort. Yes, it is annoying during winter when people flood to "my nature" and "my ski spots". But if it weren't for those people, my family or no one else would live there as there wouldn't be any jobs. So then it wouldn't be "mine" anyways.

rland 8y ago
You’re right, of course. I grew up nearby and spent many summers there as a kid, that’s why I have some connection. But the place is not mine. The reason I brought it up in the first place is because only within the last 10 years has it really gotten “bad” — completely because of instagram.
- treerock 8y ago
  I don't think you can blame instagram. These problems are happening all over the world, and I doubt that many of the tourists actually use instagram. I suspect cheap flights and accommodation, changes in fashion (city breaks vs package holidays), more disposable income and free time are all contributing.
  - Moru 8y ago
    Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so, to different locations over the world. There is always something that gets noticed on TV or whatever channel exists att he time. And then some entrepreneur uses the hype to make trips with tourists to this location. Just an example: https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots-by-decade/#!The_Catskills_Popular-Destinatons-by-Decade_ https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots...
    - dagw 8y ago
      Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour
      - kbutler 8y ago
        A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage And a lot longer than that: http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-of-tourism#EarlyFormsofTravelandTypesofJourney http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-...
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    I think any solution needs to be better than “ it was okay when only rich people could do it, but became a problem when poorer people could do it too”
    - ktjfi 8y ago
      You're making it a class problem when nobody here has mentioned class.
      - Scoundreller 8y ago
        Cheap flights and accommodations were mentioned. Flying is an unusual product that gets cheaper over time. Supply has increased. Airbnb has had an impact on hotel pricing and availability.
        hopler 8y ago
        Almost every product gets cheaper over time.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        Inflation says otherwise.
        kbutler 8y ago
        Inflation does not change the real cost of goods and services, only the nominal cost.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And the costs of flying and accommodation have actually gone down in real terms.
        darksaints 8y ago
        That's not true outside of theoretical context, much like the concept of efficient markets. In reality, inflation does change the relative real costs due to the mechanism by which inflationary monetary policy is implemented: debt. Products that rely heavily on debt (construction, airlines, etc.) will be affected by inflation differently from products that use little of it (technology, fashion, food service, etc.)
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  Blaming a website (I don't use Instagram and I am not a fan of it) for people's generally shitty behavior is stretching it, don't you think? It is absolutely possible to travel respectfully (one can't avoid the plane ride, other than that, sure) - respecting the local people, landmarks, wildlife etc. But many travelers lack this basic decency and common sense - even if Instagram died today, these people would continue to behave the same.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Instagram is in some sense just a label for the greater phenomenon.
- roymurdock 8y ago
  you're on to something, but are missing an important part of the equation instagram influencing is now a business. it's advertising without the clear disclaimers or statements for who is paying for that advertising and why a lot of this advertising requires traveling to cool/famous/chic/rugged locations and taking photos or videos there, so that followers feel they are also there, and get to see a cool place through the eyes of their "friends" it's more than just social points gamification, it's a business, it's advertising with real money involved, and these natural settings are becoming the new ad studios that it's cool to shoot in (besides places like venice beach and rue cremieux) and when businesses/money get involved, the natural respect for the environment/others using the space disintegrates in the face of profit and time maximization
dgarceran 8y ago
I'm from Barcelona, I don't see how anybody is harassing the tourists or how the city is taking their money (touristic fees/tax exist in most of the cities). If you are annoyed for some words on a wall... well, then you should learn a bit about gentrification and understand why are they there.
- Aromasin 8y ago
  I visit Barcelona quite often for work, but do try and visit the local area while I'm there and do 'touristy' things. I've had, on three separate occasions, groups of men harass and shout profanities at me, telling me to f- off back home, or calling me a filthy tourist; once going as far to follow me around jeering while I was taking photos, trying to intimidate me and forcing me back into the more populated areas. I'm not surprised you don't see how anybody is harassing tourists; you're a local so you don't get harassed. That's doesn't mean it's not an issue.
  - dgarceran 8y ago
    I'm used to be with tourists here and most of my friends here are from other countries and we are all the time speaking in English and doing these "touristy things". It never happened to me or my friends. Can I ask where did that happen?
- slowmotiony 8y ago
  What should I learn about gentrification to understand "TOURISTS FUCK OFF"?
  - dgarceran 8y ago
    That those airbnb many people get are kicking out the families off their neighborhoods, that tourists are being the priority instead of the citizens, that that type of economy is just erasing local businesses -created for daily life and not for a weekend holidays-, that it's degrading the quality of life of those who live there... Las Ramblas were once a place for the people of the city. Most of young people now can't name a single spot there that is useful there for someone who lives in Barcelona. I could continue but if you try to look at the future seeing what happened in the last 10-15 years, you can see Barcelona turning into a theme park instead of a city. Being controlled by external economy does no good to anybody anywhere, and that's why you can read "tourists fuck off" in some walls. If you travel you should be aware of the type of tourism you're going to practice and the consequences for the area you're visiting.
Tiktaalik 8y ago
Many people don't have the privilege to travel at all, so there should be some benefits for locals.
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  Pedantic, but travelling is not a privilege (assuming, of course, that we're talking about most people from most countries). Some people don't have the resources to travel, but they are not otherwise prohibited from doing so.

rland 8y ago

You’re right, of course. I grew up nearby and spent many summers there as a kid, that’s why I have some connection. But the place is not mine. The reason I brought it up in the first place is because only within the last 10 years has it really gotten “bad” — completely because of instagram.

treerock 8y ago
I don't think you can blame instagram. These problems are happening all over the world, and I doubt that many of the tourists actually use instagram. I suspect cheap flights and accommodation, changes in fashion (city breaks vs package holidays), more disposable income and free time are all contributing.
- Moru 8y ago
  Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so, to different locations over the world. There is always something that gets noticed on TV or whatever channel exists att he time. And then some entrepreneur uses the hype to make trips with tourists to this location. Just an example: https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots-by-decade/#!The_Catskills_Popular-Destinatons-by-Decade_ https://www.slice.ca/travel/photos/most-popular-travel-spots...
  - dagw 8y ago
    Yes, this has been happening the last 100 years or so A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour
    - kbutler 8y ago
      A lot longer than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage And a lot longer than that: http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-of-tourism#EarlyFormsofTravelandTypesofJourney http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/the-history-...
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I think any solution needs to be better than “ it was okay when only rich people could do it, but became a problem when poorer people could do it too”
  - ktjfi 8y ago
    You're making it a class problem when nobody here has mentioned class.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Cheap flights and accommodations were mentioned. Flying is an unusual product that gets cheaper over time. Supply has increased. Airbnb has had an impact on hotel pricing and availability.
      - hopler 8y ago
        Almost every product gets cheaper over time.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        Inflation says otherwise.
        kbutler 8y ago
        Inflation does not change the real cost of goods and services, only the nominal cost.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And the costs of flying and accommodation have actually gone down in real terms.
        darksaints 8y ago
        That's not true outside of theoretical context, much like the concept of efficient markets. In reality, inflation does change the relative real costs due to the mechanism by which inflationary monetary policy is implemented: debt. Products that rely heavily on debt (construction, airlines, etc.) will be affected by inflation differently from products that use little of it (technology, fashion, food service, etc.)
justaguyhere 8y ago
Blaming a website (I don't use Instagram and I am not a fan of it) for people's generally shitty behavior is stretching it, don't you think? It is absolutely possible to travel respectfully (one can't avoid the plane ride, other than that, sure) - respecting the local people, landmarks, wildlife etc. But many travelers lack this basic decency and common sense - even if Instagram died today, these people would continue to behave the same.
- ip26 8y ago
  Instagram is in some sense just a label for the greater phenomenon.
roymurdock 8y ago
you're on to something, but are missing an important part of the equation instagram influencing is now a business. it's advertising without the clear disclaimers or statements for who is paying for that advertising and why a lot of this advertising requires traveling to cool/famous/chic/rugged locations and taking photos or videos there, so that followers feel they are also there, and get to see a cool place through the eyes of their "friends" it's more than just social points gamification, it's a business, it's advertising with real money involved, and these natural settings are becoming the new ad studios that it's cool to shoot in (besides places like venice beach and rue cremieux) and when businesses/money get involved, the natural respect for the environment/others using the space disintegrates in the face of profit and time maximization

dgarceran 8y ago

I'm from Barcelona, I don't see how anybody is harassing the tourists or how the city is taking their money (touristic fees/tax exist in most of the cities). If you are annoyed for some words on a wall... well, then you should learn a bit about gentrification and understand why are they there.

Aromasin 8y ago
I visit Barcelona quite often for work, but do try and visit the local area while I'm there and do 'touristy' things. I've had, on three separate occasions, groups of men harass and shout profanities at me, telling me to f- off back home, or calling me a filthy tourist; once going as far to follow me around jeering while I was taking photos, trying to intimidate me and forcing me back into the more populated areas. I'm not surprised you don't see how anybody is harassing tourists; you're a local so you don't get harassed. That's doesn't mean it's not an issue.
- dgarceran 8y ago
  I'm used to be with tourists here and most of my friends here are from other countries and we are all the time speaking in English and doing these "touristy things". It never happened to me or my friends. Can I ask where did that happen?
slowmotiony 8y ago
What should I learn about gentrification to understand "TOURISTS FUCK OFF"?
- dgarceran 8y ago
  That those airbnb many people get are kicking out the families off their neighborhoods, that tourists are being the priority instead of the citizens, that that type of economy is just erasing local businesses -created for daily life and not for a weekend holidays-, that it's degrading the quality of life of those who live there... Las Ramblas were once a place for the people of the city. Most of young people now can't name a single spot there that is useful there for someone who lives in Barcelona. I could continue but if you try to look at the future seeing what happened in the last 10-15 years, you can see Barcelona turning into a theme park instead of a city. Being controlled by external economy does no good to anybody anywhere, and that's why you can read "tourists fuck off" in some walls. If you travel you should be aware of the type of tourism you're going to practice and the consequences for the area you're visiting.

Tiktaalik 8y ago

Many people don't have the privilege to travel at all, so there should be some benefits for locals.

stronglikedan 8y ago
Pedantic, but travelling is not a privilege (assuming, of course, that we're talking about most people from most countries). Some people don't have the resources to travel, but they are not otherwise prohibited from doing so.