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I think Western countries should make a favor and not punish any of that and even encourage Russian money flowing away from Russia. At some point Russian people

I think Western countries should make a favor and not punish any of that and even encourage Russian money flowing away from Russia. At some point Russian people have to stand up for themselves. This Oligarch situation is so bad its upsetting

nikanj 8y ago
The Western countries are feeling part of the pain, too. Say 50 Oligarchs each want to smuggle a nice $100M out of the country, and plop into New York / London real estate. That is a quite significant part of the newly built homes in the hot spot cities.
baybal2 8y ago
Not at the point when what makes a nation has effectively been destroyed. I'd say, with mixed feelings, Russia still had a chance until ~2005, after that simply too many of the few worthy people Russia had left gave up and immigrated away. > At some point Russian people have to stand up for themselves. Very few will ever stand for themselves, and much less for others. It's hard to shed blood and stand for ingrate whining pissants, when you know that the next day they will vote in a new Putin. I have no solution to ~85% of Russian electorate simply voting for a man promising more free sausages. Russia is irreformable. Only the most dramatic events will change that.
- deniscepko2 8y ago
  I kind of had the same point. West should help tip Russians over the edge. Lets say they encourage Russian money laundering I think at some point even the weakest will say enough is enough like in 1917. Me myself being of Russian decent i can tell that Russia either has to become a bunch of different countries (Dagestan, Chechnya, Altai and etc) or it can only function under Communist regime. Its just that human nature and culture is weird, selfish and with no empathy. Look at their religious leaders for example its disgusting
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    It sounds like you're saying make Russia/ex-Soviet countries so poor that the people have to fight for enough food to live? And do this in a way that enriches the already wealthy oligarchs? Kinda like "don't help poor people, you're just ruining their motivation"??
  - orbital-decay 8y ago
    You're saying that a guillotine is the best remedy for a headache. I'm just glad you're not in charge of any policy. (or at least I hope so)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
It's not like that money is enriching ordinary people (except incidentally by unavoidable tax), Russian oligarchs owning half of London isn't really helping us in general terms -- if you owned buildings in London already you're probably pretty happy though.
bolzano 8y ago
What do you think ordinary Russians will/should think of the West if it does this? Do you think it will encourage them to vote for a pro western liberal democrat? or an authoritarian strongman? What would you think if Russia did this to your country? Supported the oligarchs in your country... to make you see the error of your ways?
- deniscepko2 8y ago
  I dont think its about voting. The whole system is corrupt there due to the people who have power. And if west lets them legally spend their money its going to be transparent to the people in Russia. Which might push them towards some action. Btw west itself is not Liberal Democrat. Checkout Russian Liberal democrat Vladimir Zhirinovsky you'll see how different Russia is from West. I feel like you expect a western solution to a Russian problem. Im dont expect everyone agree with me, but to me it seems like this problem needs some extreme (not normal) approach
  - bolzano 8y ago
    I definitely don't want a "western" solution to a Russian problem... my point was that's pretty much what you're advocating. The west has a terrible history of implementing these kind of self defeating, counter productive Strongman strengthening policies (e.g. Putin is largely result of the west supporting with Yeltsin), which is what I think would happen if you were to "teach the people a lesson" which if I'm not reading you wrong, seems to me, what you are suggesting. Also, the question stands, what do you think the effect of your suggestion on the average Russian? Do you think they will see things your way, or will they (in some sense rightly) see this as patronising interference. How would a western person see it if Russia were to do this to their country?

nikanj 8y ago

The Western countries are feeling part of the pain, too. Say 50 Oligarchs each want to smuggle a nice $100M out of the country, and plop into New York / London real estate. That is a quite significant part of the newly built homes in the hot spot cities.

baybal2 8y ago

Not at the point when what makes a nation has effectively been destroyed. I'd say, with mixed feelings, Russia still had a chance until ~2005, after that simply too many of the few worthy people Russia had left gave up and immigrated away. > At some point Russian people have to stand up for themselves. Very few will ever stand for themselves, and much less for others. It's hard to shed blood and stand for ingrate whining pissants, when you know that the next day they will vote in a new Putin. I have no solution to ~85% of Russian electorate simply voting for a man promising more free sausages. Russia is irreformable. Only the most dramatic events will change that.

deniscepko2 8y ago
I kind of had the same point. West should help tip Russians over the edge. Lets say they encourage Russian money laundering I think at some point even the weakest will say enough is enough like in 1917. Me myself being of Russian decent i can tell that Russia either has to become a bunch of different countries (Dagestan, Chechnya, Altai and etc) or it can only function under Communist regime. Its just that human nature and culture is weird, selfish and with no empathy. Look at their religious leaders for example its disgusting
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  It sounds like you're saying make Russia/ex-Soviet countries so poor that the people have to fight for enough food to live? And do this in a way that enriches the already wealthy oligarchs? Kinda like "don't help poor people, you're just ruining their motivation"??
- orbital-decay 8y ago
  You're saying that a guillotine is the best remedy for a headache. I'm just glad you're not in charge of any policy. (or at least I hope so)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

It's not like that money is enriching ordinary people (except incidentally by unavoidable tax), Russian oligarchs owning half of London isn't really helping us in general terms -- if you owned buildings in London already you're probably pretty happy though.

bolzano 8y ago

What do you think ordinary Russians will/should think of the West if it does this? Do you think it will encourage them to vote for a pro western liberal democrat? or an authoritarian strongman? What would you think if Russia did this to your country? Supported the oligarchs in your country... to make you see the error of your ways?

deniscepko2 8y ago
I dont think its about voting. The whole system is corrupt there due to the people who have power. And if west lets them legally spend their money its going to be transparent to the people in Russia. Which might push them towards some action. Btw west itself is not Liberal Democrat. Checkout Russian Liberal democrat Vladimir Zhirinovsky you'll see how different Russia is from West. I feel like you expect a western solution to a Russian problem. Im dont expect everyone agree with me, but to me it seems like this problem needs some extreme (not normal) approach
- bolzano 8y ago
  I definitely don't want a "western" solution to a Russian problem... my point was that's pretty much what you're advocating. The west has a terrible history of implementing these kind of self defeating, counter productive Strongman strengthening policies (e.g. Putin is largely result of the west supporting with Yeltsin), which is what I think would happen if you were to "teach the people a lesson" which if I'm not reading you wrong, seems to me, what you are suggesting. Also, the question stands, what do you think the effect of your suggestion on the average Russian? Do you think they will see things your way, or will they (in some sense rightly) see this as patronising interference. How would a western person see it if Russia were to do this to their country?