11 ms·

Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

202 points by barryvan 8y ago

artiscode 8y ago
Nice knowing that, in addition of three failing keys (u, i and o) and one failed speaker, I can also expect the display flex cable to fail. 2017 MBP that's been plagued with problems from the very beginning.
- komali2 8y ago
  Sheer curiosity - why do you still use it?
- lightedman 8y ago
  Lemon Laws. Learn them. Use them. They are your friend!
- synaesthesisx 8y ago
  Ugh - I have one that also has a left failed speaker, which had previously crackled before giving out. A quick search on Reddit will find similar reports. Apple refuses to acknowledge the issue entirely.
- stunt 8y ago
  I’ve got u, i, o, and p failing!! And it’s funny because I use an external keyboard most of the time.
- jbrooksuk 8y ago
  My 2018 MacBook Pro arrived last week £2.6k and I turned it on to find the right speaker crackling. I now have to make a trip to Apple to get it fixed.
forgingahead 8y ago
I regret not buying a stash of 2012 Macbook Pros and hoarding them for my own use. Edit: And iPhone SEs as well
- eliott 8y ago
  Samsungj7
- iscrewyou 8y ago
  I bought the first touchbar MacBook Pro. Promptly returned it and bought the last high end non-touchbar pro. Best decision I ever made. This thing works just like it should. I don’t expect anything more from it. Yet Apple keeps thinking I do.
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  Mid-2015 rMBP is the peak, I believe.
  - forgingahead 8y ago
    I think the issue with all models after 2012 was the lack of being able to replace the parts since everything was soldered on -- I could be wrong about the year though.
    - empyrical 8y ago
      I know that on the 2015 rMPB the SSD is replaceable. You can even get a recent Samsung SSD and install it (provided you have the right adapter) https://medium.com/@MaestroVolis/samsung-960-pro-in-15-macbook-pro-retina-15-mid-2015-b858e7ef5fa3 https://medium.com/@MaestroVolis/samsung-960-pro-in-15-macbo...
      - navidfarhadi 8y ago
        I ended up doing this last year. I bought a Sintech adapter and a Toshiba XG4 SSD for my 2015 15” rMBP. It works just fine but the battery life ended up being terrible compared to the stock SSD. I was getting around 60% of the battery life of the stock SSD with the XG4 + adapter combo.
  - bluescrn 8y ago
    Shame about the glued-in battery
baybal2 8y ago
That's the company that removed strain relievers from all their cabling with the very intention of making them break easier. What did you people expect?
- Bud 8y ago
  Looking around my desk, I see a MagSafe power supply, with strain relief on both ends, a Thunderbolt cable, with strain relief, an HDMI adapter, with strain relief, a Lightning cable, with strain relief...what are you even talking about?
  - eecc 8y ago
    What strain relief, the crappy flex neck that stiffens over time becoming itself a strain point making the cables fray on their discontinuity? (Note how normally strain releifs are graduated... but let’s not get function to prevail of form!) I haven’t had an Apple laptop without the darn thing breaking after a couple years... it’s a tax, as well as guaranteed landfill material. Just google “apple power supply cable fray”
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      And I haven't had a power supply break yet. I still do not understand how people manage to ruin these things, unless they're yanking them from the cord itself or twisting it around. It seems like they stay together if you put just a bit of care into keeping them intact?
      - kilburn 8y ago
        I'm guessing you don't use your laptop in your lap. It is impossible to avoid some strain on the cable while the computer is on your lap, because it must hang unsupported. Use it this way for a while and I guarantee that no matter how much you care, the plastic will splinter exposing the inner cables and eventually shorting them.
        8y ago
stunt 8y ago
There are many examples of Apple never admitting design issues! Beside what they are doing with their reputation and customers loyalty, I’m wondering how is it going to affect their engineering culture within the company itself. They are very biased with their strategies in everything and they hardly change them. Same situation Microsoft was in some years ago.
- vardump 8y ago
  I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability. When you have an issue, and complain about it or even ask advice what to do, I've often encountered toxic behavior from Apple fans. Denying the problem's existence and such. The problem is of course what to heck to buy. MacBooks do have nice features, like fast wakeup and an excellent touchpad, that I still haven't seen matched in the "Windows" laptop camp.
  - setquk 8y ago
    Wise choice. I bought a 2018 MBA with a “fixed butterfly keyboard”. Keyboard was useless after two weeks so it went back. Back on the thinkpad now.
    - Hengjie 8y ago
      Same issue, keyboard on 2018 had issues. Key broke and Apple deemed it "accidental damage" because of my efforts to clean the key following their support article.
      - setquk 8y ago
        Assholes. I would have just chargebacked the damn thing if they pulled that shit on me. Edit: this sort of denialism makes me feel dirty owning an iphone.
  - ioulian 8y ago
    I too was wondering how to "replace" my MacBook Pro, (I have one from work, but I want one machine to do my work on it). I've gone with Microsoft Surface Book 2 (13 inch) and I must say, if you can live with Windows, this is a good alternative: The touchpad is nice (except from right clicking with 2 fingers, but I think you can change it with software), the hardware is beautifully made, battery lasts 12 hours (maybe around 8-10 with normal usage) and you get in a windows tablet too. My only problem was the pricetag, 2.6k is kinda a lot, for the specs that aren't the best you can get, but it's good for development work, I can also play some games on it and use photo editing tools. This was the only windows laptop that I really liked, (my previous was a thinkpad from 8 years ago).
Ultramanoid 8y ago
Still waiting for Apple to make anything anywhere as good as the Pismo was. I've had hardware issues of one kind or another with every single laptop from them since then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G3#PowerBook_(FireWire,_Pismo) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G3#PowerBook_(FireWi...
- jakobegger 8y ago
  One problem with the Pismo (and probably other laptops at the time) was that the backlight would become very dim. You could buy replacement backlights, but installing them was really difficult. Even if you managed to not break the very thin glass tube, aligning it in a way not to cast any shadows was tricky. I think that the newer, LED-backlit displays actually have a much longer lifetime (apart from "Flexgate").
  - Ultramanoid 8y ago
    Anecdotal experience, but never had any issues with the Pismo, which I used well past the mid-2000s. I did have screen problems with the first titanium PowerBook G4, flickering, glitching, and then after a few months the thing just died and had to be replaced. That was after the hard disk failed as well in the first month of use. And it's been one thing or another ever since then. Being an Apple customer of several decades, I sincerely do not understand this myth of fantastic quality they have. I have had IBM and Lenovo fail much less, and HP... Actually never. Edit ： Just checked dates, and yes, I used the Pismo for 8 years. The PowerBook G4 barely 3 years and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
  - fzzzy 8y ago
    I think you might be thinking of the Wallstreet, not the Pismo.
- pvg 8y ago
  This might be more a matter of luck and fond memory. The Pismo is a rickety plastic crate compared to any unibody MacBook.
skilled 8y ago
I have owned 3 Macbooks so far. And all 3 have had one of the speakers break. Am I just that unlucky? Oh and yeah, what a diarrhea of a keyboard in the 2016 edition.
- potta_coffee 8y ago
  I hate hate hate the newer Mac keyboard. Diarrhea is absolutely the perfect word to describe my feelings toward it.
  - titanix2 8y ago
    When the MacBook Pro were presented with this new keyboard I bought the older model in prevision of the 5+ years keyboard winter. Very happy of this decision so far.
    - andrei_says_ 8y ago
      I got a nice used 2015 model. Absolutely love it. Great keyboard, MagSafe, SD card slot, hdmi. Physical keys instead of a touchbar. The other day I walked through the cord while it was charging on the table and my laptop did not get destroyed. how could Apple f that up so badly is beyond me.
      - EngineerBetter 8y ago
        Likewise, very happy to still be using my 2015 MBP. I don't feel any envy for users of the newer models.
      - titanix2 8y ago
        Yes, the various ports were also a big selling point. By the time USB-C will be democratized we will have (I hope) a total revision that will solve the current issues.
        blhack 8y ago
CoolGuySteve 8y ago
A bigger problem imo is the $700 display replacement. I have a similar problem with my wife’s broken MacBook, where replacing the display costs almost as much as the computer itself. The problem with the MacBook is that the display is bonded to the glass and the aluminum back so that you have to replace the entire top assembly to fix the display. It’s even more depressing to know that the ribbon connecting the display is also soldered on. Apple (and Ives in particular) talks a lot about recycling, sustainability, and product lifecycle, but that seems like complete bullshit once you actually open up or try to repair one of their products.
- zuron7 8y ago
  To be fair, I do know a few (mid-size) companies who tend to replace the entire system, then send the faulty piece back to a centralized repair facility which repairs the boards, and then they're used to repair another faulty piece. Don't know whether the large companies do this though.
  - regecks 8y ago
    Apple do this and call it "remanufacturing".
    - wlesieutre 8y ago
      That's a pretty good gig for them, charge you $700 for a display replacement and then take your old display and remanufacture it for $10 to reuse somewhere else
  - adrianN 8y ago
    The repairs at the central facility would be much more efficient if the repairable unit was a cable instead of half the machine.
    - zuron7 8y ago
      Can't argue with that, but these repair houses have special tools which make the entire process almost as efficient as repairing a bulkier and modular device. At the end of the day, we can call it a user hostile measure and it needs to be tackled with government policies.
andy_ppp 8y ago
Eventually Apple will make a disposable $3000 Mac and everyone will love it ...
- bluescrn 8y ago
  Is that the current MBP? If nothing else fails, you’ll have the glued-in battery to deal with...
  - andy_ppp 8y ago
    I always wondered why the battery isn't part of the bottom cover - it seems making a once piece bottom/battery would save space and allow for a bigger battery. I guess it's so that its deliberately difficult to replace.
- morkfromork 8y ago
  It will still only have a 128GB SSD.
  - g3ph4z 8y ago
    If not, then they will increase the price to $3300, or more, I guess.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Tired of this kind of lazy trolling on every article even vaguely critical about Apple.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- erik_seaberg 8y ago
  Every laptop is disposable. You can't drop in a new motherboard from Fry's.
fooker 8y ago
Is there any signal that they are going to introduce a better keyboard? I just can't grow to like the current ones.
- majewsky 8y ago
  They got a patent for putting key switches under a touchscreen, so my guess is that it's just going to get worse.
  - fooker 8y ago
    Oh wow, that's messed up.
l1feh4ck 8y ago
The one thing that caught my attention is that "they keep deleting the issue we post". That is an evil thing to do.
- eridius 8y ago
  Question: do they delete any other posts, or just ones alleging design flaws? Do they give any reason for deletion?
  - oneeyedpigeon 8y ago
    Accidental Tech Podcast dealt with this recently: Apple's support and bug tracking is really low-standard, by all accounts. Apparently, they frequently mass-close bugs (e.g. after a new release) with a comment to the effect of "if this is still a bug, please reopen it". You can understand the circumstances that might've led them to do this ... but it doesn't sound great.
    - eridius 8y ago
      As someone who files an extremely high volume of Apple bug reports, that's not actually true. They occasionally close a bug with "please try again and let us know if it's still happening", but that's extremely rare. And to be fair, the last time I saw that happen, the bug in question had actually been fixed at some point in the past. I'm pretty sure in that instance some engineer said "hey wait, that sounds familiar, I think we fixed that already, but I can't find the original bug report".
  - benologist 8y ago
    Apple as official policy once warned iOS developers not to talk shit about their arbitrary app rejections to the press so I'd say they've been pretty consistent trying to suppress negative opinions. "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer...
vietvu 8y ago
A classic Apple move. Then a year later, they will offer to "fix" the affected model with "reasonable price", and people still have no choice but to go along with it.
- scottydelta 8y ago
  just like their generous $30 battery replacements on iPhones after they were caught slowing down the iphones.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > they were caught slowing down the iphones This is a mischaracterization of the issue. They communicated battery throttling poorly; they weren't "caught slowing down" iPhones.
    - scottydelta 8y ago
      They never acknowledged the issue even though the issue has been there for quite sometime[1]. [1] https://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/09/03/study-suggests-that-apple-deliberately-sabotages-old-products-iphone-slow-peaks-after-every-new-release/ https://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/09/03/study-sugges...
      - hvidgaard 8y ago
        In all honesty, a battery is a wear and tear item. At some point it simply cannot provide enough power - it has been this way ever since rechargeable batteries was invented. What Apple did was the only thing they could do to keep the phone working reasonably, but they should have communicated it clearly, and offered battery replacement for a reasonable price (30$ for iPhone 6 battery replacement was cheap). Other manufactures have this issue too, and some phones like the Nexus 6p was extreme. In the old days the battery was user replaceable, and it was well known that you'd have to buy a new one at some point.
        8y ago
snazzycalynx 8y ago
Last years there are many fuckups with pro models.
_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
Cook is a supply chain guy.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
WA 8y ago
The display in my MacBook Pro 2017 just died recently. It was flickering for a week and then went all black (almost), except for a small line of pixels. Together with the double-insert problem when hitting the space key, it’s really total garbage.
gumby 8y ago
The 2018 keyboard is much more robust than the earilier ones. In 8 months I haven’t had to replace it at all (though I am close). I actually don’t mind the feel, just want it to work. And the Touch Bar...if I could just disable the hypersensitive virtual escape key (I use caps lock for that) it would be perfect...all else can be disabled but not that botch, for some reason. I guess I still use it because I find the alternatives even worse. Could be Apple Stockholm syndrome.
- davidverhasselt 8y ago
  You can easily disable the escape key on the TouchBar using the free Karabiner-Elements https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ This is my setup: https://d.pr/i/sP4OMX https://d.pr/i/sP4OMX
  - gumby 8y ago
    Thanks, I’ll give it a try
  - gumby 8y ago
    Hmm, that still doesn't disable the Touch Bar escape on my 2018 MBP. Any advice?
- BossingAround 8y ago
  So, it's a 'win' when you don't have to replace your keyboard in 8 months...? Some people are still using 2012 Macbook Pros...
- pmlnr 8y ago
  8 months?! I've been using a usb thinkpad compact kybpard for 9 years.
lbill 8y ago
Bad news: Apple takes us for fools, again. this sucks. Good news: many businesses and influencers (iFixit, Louis Rossman, Linus Tech Tips ...) are talking about it. This is bad press for Apple. The more noise we make about these issues, the better the chances are that Apple improves on its flaws. I'm not overly optimistic about it: spreading the word about Apple's bad habits might be useless. But trying and failing is in my opinion better than not trying at all : at best, Apple makes better product ; At worst, they just keep on doing what they're doing.
libertine 8y ago
The weirdest part of all of this is the recurrent problems of Apple products in peoples tech-life-time, and the same people, while annoyed, embrace it... and I just don't get it. If products fail on you consistently, why you keep buying them? It's 2019, there's a lot of great products out there, with way more quality than some Apple products. If the problem is the "ecosystem" you bought into, well maybe it was a mistake to begin with because it seems it's not much of a balanced ecosystem - so maybe you should consider jumping out of it. I know I'm biased because I've been a windows user all my life, and I'm not from USA where Apple reigns supreme and people communicate with each other via Apple products/apps... but damn, is it really worth it? Because you're being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
- fphhotchips 8y ago
  As far as I can tell (I haven't owned Apple kit since an iPod with a spinning disk), OS X is a hell of a drug.
- Traster 8y ago
  Let's be clear about this: we have no idea how often this issue is occuring. From what we're seeing it could be 0.0001% of Apple Laptops failing within 3 years. This just tends to get a lot of attention. If you buy an Acer laptop it'll probably be 10x more likely to break in 3 years, but no one cares because the Acer brand is crap. This isn't surprising, the likelihood of breakdown is just 1 aspect of choosing to buy a laptop. There might be 'great' products out there, but my experience is that Windows is a total turd and so even if you could find hardware as good as Apple's your still torturing yourself everyday. There's loads of reasons to make the choice and a tiny % chance of your laptop breaking isn't going to completely convince people not to buy.
  - libertine 8y ago
    Well in the past years some of Apple products have had serious issues - like engineering flaws that made their products prone to issues. So it's not just this issue. About Acer, you'll have to back it up with something, because you know, Acer has laptops that range from 300€ to 1500€+. But you're right, just because it's Apple these problems have a different reach in media, but on the other hand, Apple doesn't own their problems. And to top it off their practices when it comes to support some of the issues is just ridiculous. To say windows is a total turd makes you look like you're just trying to hurt it's feelings, because you know, and I know, and everyone knows Windows serves it's purpose for plenty of people. Just like Android does. If only the problems were in Apple laptops... the problems is in other product lines, and in the way Apple designs their products. Decisions like pinning down a laptop keyboard with rivets, poor choice of materials, poor thermals, the list goes on. But hey, rejoice on it.
papagoat 8y ago
I paid for AppleCare and Apple fixed my keyboard twice and replaced my display for free. No questions asked. The counter-argument is that such an expensive machine should not fail. Hardware suffers from wear-and-tear. My upfront investment for AppleCare more than paid for itself.
nisuni 8y ago
Environmental certifications should include repairability.
tmd83 8y ago
I also never see much talk about the sharp edges of Macbook. It was a struggle for me when I got mine. But just yesterday I checked the 2018 model of a colleague. And the sharpness was even worse. More importantly the vents on the side and on the around the hinge were really bad. My skin was scrapped painfully if my hand dragged across it. I don't know how one can use this safely without scratching one's skin :(. I like a lot about the Macbook itself while I also hate some of their choices. But this package they put everything is in sharp, slippery, zero grip is simply beyond absurd for me. That's not even talking about the repairability or making it so thin than it's harder to grip. They have solved a lot of the tough problem of quality manufacturing and set a price for themselves to allow it profitability. That's the big thing. The problems Macbook has I feel are not about lack of engineering skill. It's completely about designer ego and fleecing the customers.
mnm1 8y ago
Interesting. This stage light effect also affects my 2007 mbpro which is two generous old. It did take about seven years to develop, but it seems that it's been an issue possibly on past models also that has just gotten worse with the latest thin design.

202 points by barryvan 8y ago

Nice knowing that, in addition of three failing keys (u, i and o) and one failed speaker, I can also expect the display flex cable to fail. 2017 MBP that's been plagued with problems from the very beginning.

komali2 8y ago
Sheer curiosity - why do you still use it?
lightedman 8y ago
Lemon Laws. Learn them. Use them. They are your friend!
synaesthesisx 8y ago
Ugh - I have one that also has a left failed speaker, which had previously crackled before giving out. A quick search on Reddit will find similar reports. Apple refuses to acknowledge the issue entirely.
stunt 8y ago
I’ve got u, i, o, and p failing!! And it’s funny because I use an external keyboard most of the time.
jbrooksuk 8y ago
My 2018 MacBook Pro arrived last week £2.6k and I turned it on to find the right speaker crackling. I now have to make a trip to Apple to get it fixed.

forgingahead 8y ago

I regret not buying a stash of 2012 Macbook Pros and hoarding them for my own use. Edit: And iPhone SEs as well

eliott 8y ago
Samsungj7
iscrewyou 8y ago
I bought the first touchbar MacBook Pro. Promptly returned it and bought the last high end non-touchbar pro. Best decision I ever made. This thing works just like it should. I don’t expect anything more from it. Yet Apple keeps thinking I do.
Apocryphon 8y ago
Mid-2015 rMBP is the peak, I believe.
- forgingahead 8y ago
  I think the issue with all models after 2012 was the lack of being able to replace the parts since everything was soldered on -- I could be wrong about the year though.
  - empyrical 8y ago
    I know that on the 2015 rMPB the SSD is replaceable. You can even get a recent Samsung SSD and install it (provided you have the right adapter) https://medium.com/@MaestroVolis/samsung-960-pro-in-15-macbook-pro-retina-15-mid-2015-b858e7ef5fa3 https://medium.com/@MaestroVolis/samsung-960-pro-in-15-macbo...
    - navidfarhadi 8y ago
      I ended up doing this last year. I bought a Sintech adapter and a Toshiba XG4 SSD for my 2015 15” rMBP. It works just fine but the battery life ended up being terrible compared to the stock SSD. I was getting around 60% of the battery life of the stock SSD with the XG4 + adapter combo.
- bluescrn 8y ago
  Shame about the glued-in battery

baybal2 8y ago

That's the company that removed strain relievers from all their cabling with the very intention of making them break easier. What did you people expect?

Bud 8y ago
Looking around my desk, I see a MagSafe power supply, with strain relief on both ends, a Thunderbolt cable, with strain relief, an HDMI adapter, with strain relief, a Lightning cable, with strain relief...what are you even talking about?
- eecc 8y ago
  What strain relief, the crappy flex neck that stiffens over time becoming itself a strain point making the cables fray on their discontinuity? (Note how normally strain releifs are graduated... but let’s not get function to prevail of form!) I haven’t had an Apple laptop without the darn thing breaking after a couple years... it’s a tax, as well as guaranteed landfill material. Just google “apple power supply cable fray”
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    And I haven't had a power supply break yet. I still do not understand how people manage to ruin these things, unless they're yanking them from the cord itself or twisting it around. It seems like they stay together if you put just a bit of care into keeping them intact?
    - kilburn 8y ago
      I'm guessing you don't use your laptop in your lap. It is impossible to avoid some strain on the cable while the computer is on your lap, because it must hang unsupported. Use it this way for a while and I guarantee that no matter how much you care, the plastic will splinter exposing the inner cables and eventually shorting them.
      - 8y ago

stunt 8y ago

There are many examples of Apple never admitting design issues! Beside what they are doing with their reputation and customers loyalty, I’m wondering how is it going to affect their engineering culture within the company itself. They are very biased with their strategies in everything and they hardly change them. Same situation Microsoft was in some years ago.

vardump 8y ago
I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability. When you have an issue, and complain about it or even ask advice what to do, I've often encountered toxic behavior from Apple fans. Denying the problem's existence and such. The problem is of course what to heck to buy. MacBooks do have nice features, like fast wakeup and an excellent touchpad, that I still haven't seen matched in the "Windows" laptop camp.
- setquk 8y ago
  Wise choice. I bought a 2018 MBA with a “fixed butterfly keyboard”. Keyboard was useless after two weeks so it went back. Back on the thinkpad now.
  - Hengjie 8y ago
    Same issue, keyboard on 2018 had issues. Key broke and Apple deemed it "accidental damage" because of my efforts to clean the key following their support article.
    - setquk 8y ago
      Assholes. I would have just chargebacked the damn thing if they pulled that shit on me. Edit: this sort of denialism makes me feel dirty owning an iphone.
- ioulian 8y ago
  I too was wondering how to "replace" my MacBook Pro, (I have one from work, but I want one machine to do my work on it). I've gone with Microsoft Surface Book 2 (13 inch) and I must say, if you can live with Windows, this is a good alternative: The touchpad is nice (except from right clicking with 2 fingers, but I think you can change it with software), the hardware is beautifully made, battery lasts 12 hours (maybe around 8-10 with normal usage) and you get in a windows tablet too. My only problem was the pricetag, 2.6k is kinda a lot, for the specs that aren't the best you can get, but it's good for development work, I can also play some games on it and use photo editing tools. This was the only windows laptop that I really liked, (my previous was a thinkpad from 8 years ago).

Ultramanoid 8y ago

Still waiting for Apple to make anything anywhere as good as the Pismo was. I've had hardware issues of one kind or another with every single laptop from them since then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G3#PowerBook_(FireWire,_Pismo) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G3#PowerBook_(FireWi...

jakobegger 8y ago
One problem with the Pismo (and probably other laptops at the time) was that the backlight would become very dim. You could buy replacement backlights, but installing them was really difficult. Even if you managed to not break the very thin glass tube, aligning it in a way not to cast any shadows was tricky. I think that the newer, LED-backlit displays actually have a much longer lifetime (apart from "Flexgate").
- Ultramanoid 8y ago
  Anecdotal experience, but never had any issues with the Pismo, which I used well past the mid-2000s. I did have screen problems with the first titanium PowerBook G4, flickering, glitching, and then after a few months the thing just died and had to be replaced. That was after the hard disk failed as well in the first month of use. And it's been one thing or another ever since then. Being an Apple customer of several decades, I sincerely do not understand this myth of fantastic quality they have. I have had IBM and Lenovo fail much less, and HP... Actually never. Edit ： Just checked dates, and yes, I used the Pismo for 8 years. The PowerBook G4 barely 3 years and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
- fzzzy 8y ago
  I think you might be thinking of the Wallstreet, not the Pismo.
pvg 8y ago
This might be more a matter of luck and fond memory. The Pismo is a rickety plastic crate compared to any unibody MacBook.

skilled 8y ago

I have owned 3 Macbooks so far. And all 3 have had one of the speakers break. Am I just that unlucky? Oh and yeah, what a diarrhea of a keyboard in the 2016 edition.

potta_coffee 8y ago
I hate hate hate the newer Mac keyboard. Diarrhea is absolutely the perfect word to describe my feelings toward it.
- titanix2 8y ago
  When the MacBook Pro were presented with this new keyboard I bought the older model in prevision of the 5+ years keyboard winter. Very happy of this decision so far.
  - andrei_says_ 8y ago
    I got a nice used 2015 model. Absolutely love it. Great keyboard, MagSafe, SD card slot, hdmi. Physical keys instead of a touchbar. The other day I walked through the cord while it was charging on the table and my laptop did not get destroyed. how could Apple f that up so badly is beyond me.
    - EngineerBetter 8y ago
      Likewise, very happy to still be using my 2015 MBP. I don't feel any envy for users of the newer models.
    - titanix2 8y ago
      Yes, the various ports were also a big selling point. By the time USB-C will be democratized we will have (I hope) a total revision that will solve the current issues.
      - blhack 8y ago

CoolGuySteve 8y ago

A bigger problem imo is the $700 display replacement. I have a similar problem with my wife’s broken MacBook, where replacing the display costs almost as much as the computer itself. The problem with the MacBook is that the display is bonded to the glass and the aluminum back so that you have to replace the entire top assembly to fix the display. It’s even more depressing to know that the ribbon connecting the display is also soldered on. Apple (and Ives in particular) talks a lot about recycling, sustainability, and product lifecycle, but that seems like complete bullshit once you actually open up or try to repair one of their products.

zuron7 8y ago
To be fair, I do know a few (mid-size) companies who tend to replace the entire system, then send the faulty piece back to a centralized repair facility which repairs the boards, and then they're used to repair another faulty piece. Don't know whether the large companies do this though.
- regecks 8y ago
  Apple do this and call it "remanufacturing".
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    That's a pretty good gig for them, charge you $700 for a display replacement and then take your old display and remanufacture it for $10 to reuse somewhere else
- adrianN 8y ago
  The repairs at the central facility would be much more efficient if the repairable unit was a cable instead of half the machine.
  - zuron7 8y ago
    Can't argue with that, but these repair houses have special tools which make the entire process almost as efficient as repairing a bulkier and modular device. At the end of the day, we can call it a user hostile measure and it needs to be tackled with government policies.

andy_ppp 8y ago

Eventually Apple will make a disposable $3000 Mac and everyone will love it ...

bluescrn 8y ago
Is that the current MBP? If nothing else fails, you’ll have the glued-in battery to deal with...
- andy_ppp 8y ago
  I always wondered why the battery isn't part of the bottom cover - it seems making a once piece bottom/battery would save space and allow for a bigger battery. I guess it's so that its deliberately difficult to replace.
morkfromork 8y ago
It will still only have a 128GB SSD.
- g3ph4z 8y ago
  If not, then they will increase the price to $3300, or more, I guess.
LeoPanthera 8y ago
Tired of this kind of lazy trolling on every article even vaguely critical about Apple.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
erik_seaberg 8y ago
Every laptop is disposable. You can't drop in a new motherboard from Fry's.

fooker 8y ago

Is there any signal that they are going to introduce a better keyboard? I just can't grow to like the current ones.

majewsky 8y ago
They got a patent for putting key switches under a touchscreen, so my guess is that it's just going to get worse.
- fooker 8y ago
  Oh wow, that's messed up.

l1feh4ck 8y ago

The one thing that caught my attention is that "they keep deleting the issue we post". That is an evil thing to do.

eridius 8y ago
Question: do they delete any other posts, or just ones alleging design flaws? Do they give any reason for deletion?
- oneeyedpigeon 8y ago
  Accidental Tech Podcast dealt with this recently: Apple's support and bug tracking is really low-standard, by all accounts. Apparently, they frequently mass-close bugs (e.g. after a new release) with a comment to the effect of "if this is still a bug, please reopen it". You can understand the circumstances that might've led them to do this ... but it doesn't sound great.
  - eridius 8y ago
    As someone who files an extremely high volume of Apple bug reports, that's not actually true. They occasionally close a bug with "please try again and let us know if it's still happening", but that's extremely rare. And to be fair, the last time I saw that happen, the bug in question had actually been fixed at some point in the past. I'm pretty sure in that instance some engineer said "hey wait, that sounds familiar, I think we fixed that already, but I can't find the original bug report".
- benologist 8y ago
  Apple as official policy once warned iOS developers not to talk shit about their arbitrary app rejections to the press so I'd say they've been pretty consistent trying to suppress negative opinions. "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer...

vietvu 8y ago

A classic Apple move. Then a year later, they will offer to "fix" the affected model with "reasonable price", and people still have no choice but to go along with it.

scottydelta 8y ago
just like their generous $30 battery replacements on iPhones after they were caught slowing down the iphones.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > they were caught slowing down the iphones This is a mischaracterization of the issue. They communicated battery throttling poorly; they weren't "caught slowing down" iPhones.
  - scottydelta 8y ago
    They never acknowledged the issue even though the issue has been there for quite sometime[1]. [1] https://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/09/03/study-suggests-that-apple-deliberately-sabotages-old-products-iphone-slow-peaks-after-every-new-release/ https://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/09/03/study-sugges...
    - hvidgaard 8y ago
      In all honesty, a battery is a wear and tear item. At some point it simply cannot provide enough power - it has been this way ever since rechargeable batteries was invented. What Apple did was the only thing they could do to keep the phone working reasonably, but they should have communicated it clearly, and offered battery replacement for a reasonable price (30$ for iPhone 6 battery replacement was cheap). Other manufactures have this issue too, and some phones like the Nexus 6p was extreme. In the old days the battery was user replaceable, and it was well known that you'd have to buy a new one at some point.
      - 8y ago

snazzycalynx 8y ago

Last years there are many fuckups with pro models.

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago

Cook is a supply chain guy.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

WA 8y ago

The display in my MacBook Pro 2017 just died recently. It was flickering for a week and then went all black (almost), except for a small line of pixels. Together with the double-insert problem when hitting the space key, it’s really total garbage.

gumby 8y ago

The 2018 keyboard is much more robust than the earilier ones. In 8 months I haven’t had to replace it at all (though I am close). I actually don’t mind the feel, just want it to work. And the Touch Bar...if I could just disable the hypersensitive virtual escape key (I use caps lock for that) it would be perfect...all else can be disabled but not that botch, for some reason. I guess I still use it because I find the alternatives even worse. Could be Apple Stockholm syndrome.

davidverhasselt 8y ago
You can easily disable the escape key on the TouchBar using the free Karabiner-Elements https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ This is my setup: https://d.pr/i/sP4OMX https://d.pr/i/sP4OMX
- gumby 8y ago
  Thanks, I’ll give it a try
- gumby 8y ago
  Hmm, that still doesn't disable the Touch Bar escape on my 2018 MBP. Any advice?
BossingAround 8y ago
So, it's a 'win' when you don't have to replace your keyboard in 8 months...? Some people are still using 2012 Macbook Pros...
pmlnr 8y ago
8 months?! I've been using a usb thinkpad compact kybpard for 9 years.

lbill 8y ago

Bad news: Apple takes us for fools, again. this sucks. Good news: many businesses and influencers (iFixit, Louis Rossman, Linus Tech Tips ...) are talking about it. This is bad press for Apple. The more noise we make about these issues, the better the chances are that Apple improves on its flaws. I'm not overly optimistic about it: spreading the word about Apple's bad habits might be useless. But trying and failing is in my opinion better than not trying at all : at best, Apple makes better product ; At worst, they just keep on doing what they're doing.

libertine 8y ago

The weirdest part of all of this is the recurrent problems of Apple products in peoples tech-life-time, and the same people, while annoyed, embrace it... and I just don't get it. If products fail on you consistently, why you keep buying them? It's 2019, there's a lot of great products out there, with way more quality than some Apple products. If the problem is the "ecosystem" you bought into, well maybe it was a mistake to begin with because it seems it's not much of a balanced ecosystem - so maybe you should consider jumping out of it. I know I'm biased because I've been a windows user all my life, and I'm not from USA where Apple reigns supreme and people communicate with each other via Apple products/apps... but damn, is it really worth it? Because you're being part of the problem, not part of the solution.

fphhotchips 8y ago
As far as I can tell (I haven't owned Apple kit since an iPod with a spinning disk), OS X is a hell of a drug.
Traster 8y ago
Let's be clear about this: we have no idea how often this issue is occuring. From what we're seeing it could be 0.0001% of Apple Laptops failing within 3 years. This just tends to get a lot of attention. If you buy an Acer laptop it'll probably be 10x more likely to break in 3 years, but no one cares because the Acer brand is crap. This isn't surprising, the likelihood of breakdown is just 1 aspect of choosing to buy a laptop. There might be 'great' products out there, but my experience is that Windows is a total turd and so even if you could find hardware as good as Apple's your still torturing yourself everyday. There's loads of reasons to make the choice and a tiny % chance of your laptop breaking isn't going to completely convince people not to buy.
- libertine 8y ago
  Well in the past years some of Apple products have had serious issues - like engineering flaws that made their products prone to issues. So it's not just this issue. About Acer, you'll have to back it up with something, because you know, Acer has laptops that range from 300€ to 1500€+. But you're right, just because it's Apple these problems have a different reach in media, but on the other hand, Apple doesn't own their problems. And to top it off their practices when it comes to support some of the issues is just ridiculous. To say windows is a total turd makes you look like you're just trying to hurt it's feelings, because you know, and I know, and everyone knows Windows serves it's purpose for plenty of people. Just like Android does. If only the problems were in Apple laptops... the problems is in other product lines, and in the way Apple designs their products. Decisions like pinning down a laptop keyboard with rivets, poor choice of materials, poor thermals, the list goes on. But hey, rejoice on it.

papagoat 8y ago

I paid for AppleCare and Apple fixed my keyboard twice and replaced my display for free. No questions asked. The counter-argument is that such an expensive machine should not fail. Hardware suffers from wear-and-tear. My upfront investment for AppleCare more than paid for itself.

nisuni 8y ago

Environmental certifications should include repairability.

tmd83 8y ago

I also never see much talk about the sharp edges of Macbook. It was a struggle for me when I got mine. But just yesterday I checked the 2018 model of a colleague. And the sharpness was even worse. More importantly the vents on the side and on the around the hinge were really bad. My skin was scrapped painfully if my hand dragged across it. I don't know how one can use this safely without scratching one's skin :(. I like a lot about the Macbook itself while I also hate some of their choices. But this package they put everything is in sharp, slippery, zero grip is simply beyond absurd for me. That's not even talking about the repairability or making it so thin than it's harder to grip. They have solved a lot of the tough problem of quality manufacturing and set a price for themselves to allow it profitability. That's the big thing. The problems Macbook has I feel are not about lack of engineering skill. It's completely about designer ego and fleecing the customers.

mnm1 8y ago

Interesting. This stage light effect also affects my 2007 mbpro which is two generous old. It did take about seven years to develop, but it seems that it's been an issue possibly on past models also that has just gotten worse with the latest thin design.