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""Fire fighting" gets you hailed as a hero. "Fire prevention" tends to be dismissed as "You didn't really do anything. You just got lucky." Humans are super bad

""Fire fighting" gets you hailed as a hero. "Fire prevention" tends to be dismissed as "You didn't really do anything. You just got lucky." Humans are super bad at counting the disasters that didn't happen, but should/would have. So "fire fighting" is more attractive, "sexy" and heroic." There is generally no respect for maintenance and things that last. Same in the corporate world. The people who keep systems running get labeled as "dinosaurs".

JustSomeNobody 8y ago
> There is generally no respect for maintenance and things that last. Same in the corporate world. Of all places, HN should know this is true. So many devs hate maintenance to the point of snubbing their noses at anyone who does maintenance. "Oh, he's just a maintenance developer, he can't do what I do." I've actually heard devs say that about another dev. You would think that intelligence would prevent some of that behavior (because they should know better), but I guess not.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
I stayed home with my kids until they were in their teens. I did so in part because I was molested and raped after my sister left for college and my mom began working, leaving me unprotected from a predator. My kids were never molested. It was crystal clear in my mind that the single biggest thing I could do to protect them from predators was simply be present. They spent little time in daycare or home alone. I am often reluctant to talk about that. Stay at home moms are treated like unambitious losers mooching off their gainfully employed husbands. Self proclaimed feminists are routinely really ugly to me and other women like me. Talking about the importance of a parent being there gets decried as being a misogynistic dinosaur advocating for women to be barefoot and pregnant. I also have been told that my presence at home is not why my sons were never molested. I was merely "lucky" and I'm wrongfully trying to take credit for some random roll of the dice when I didn't actually do a fucking thing. But I'm quite clear that civilization is mostly nurtured quietly by "thankless jobs" and the celebrated heroes are often a symptom of a failed system, so celebrating them sometimes strikes me as part of the problem, not part of the solution. My sons understand the things I've done for them and they routinely tell me "You're an awesome mom and I'm so glad you raised me." But the rest of the world is pretty bad about making me feel like a total fucking loser with nothing of value to offer who doesn't deserve an adequate income and should stop whining about being poor. So it's driven home to me daily that the world terribly undervalues quiet maintenance type work.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "So it's driven home to me daily that the world terribly undervalues quiet maintenance type work." I always think about how little the cleaners at a company are paid. In a sense they keep the whole thing running but they get sooo little respect.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    One of the reasons I ultimately quit my corporate job: during the recession, they cut back on janitorial to save money. I was taking my own trash out of my cubicle every other day because I have a compromised immune system and it makes me too sick to work to leave trash there for two days. I wonder how much productivity went down because of this one decision without anyone but me seeing any connection whatsoever.
  - imtringued 8y ago
    It's simple market forces at work. There are a hundred million potential cleaners in the entire USA but less than a million potential developers. (made up statistics)

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

> There is generally no respect for maintenance and things that last. Same in the corporate world. Of all places, HN should know this is true. So many devs hate maintenance to the point of snubbing their noses at anyone who does maintenance. "Oh, he's just a maintenance developer, he can't do what I do." I've actually heard devs say that about another dev. You would think that intelligence would prevent some of that behavior (because they should know better), but I guess not.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

I stayed home with my kids until they were in their teens. I did so in part because I was molested and raped after my sister left for college and my mom began working, leaving me unprotected from a predator. My kids were never molested. It was crystal clear in my mind that the single biggest thing I could do to protect them from predators was simply be present. They spent little time in daycare or home alone. I am often reluctant to talk about that. Stay at home moms are treated like unambitious losers mooching off their gainfully employed husbands. Self proclaimed feminists are routinely really ugly to me and other women like me. Talking about the importance of a parent being there gets decried as being a misogynistic dinosaur advocating for women to be barefoot and pregnant. I also have been told that my presence at home is not why my sons were never molested. I was merely "lucky" and I'm wrongfully trying to take credit for some random roll of the dice when I didn't actually do a fucking thing. But I'm quite clear that civilization is mostly nurtured quietly by "thankless jobs" and the celebrated heroes are often a symptom of a failed system, so celebrating them sometimes strikes me as part of the problem, not part of the solution. My sons understand the things I've done for them and they routinely tell me "You're an awesome mom and I'm so glad you raised me." But the rest of the world is pretty bad about making me feel like a total fucking loser with nothing of value to offer who doesn't deserve an adequate income and should stop whining about being poor. So it's driven home to me daily that the world terribly undervalues quiet maintenance type work.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"So it's driven home to me daily that the world terribly undervalues quiet maintenance type work." I always think about how little the cleaners at a company are paid. In a sense they keep the whole thing running but they get sooo little respect.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  One of the reasons I ultimately quit my corporate job: during the recession, they cut back on janitorial to save money. I was taking my own trash out of my cubicle every other day because I have a compromised immune system and it makes me too sick to work to leave trash there for two days. I wonder how much productivity went down because of this one decision without anyone but me seeing any connection whatsoever.
- imtringued 8y ago
  It's simple market forces at work. There are a hundred million potential cleaners in the entire USA but less than a million potential developers. (made up statistics)