6 ms·

> I'm not comfortable driving faster than that. Of course you're not comfortable driving faster than that in a Honda Fit. That's like saying you're not comfort

by 013a 8y ago

> I'm not comfortable driving faster than that. Of course you're not comfortable driving faster than that in a Honda Fit. That's like saying you're not comfortable going faster than 30 in a golf cart. In the right car and on the right roads, hitting 120 is as simple and easy as hitting 70 in typical econoboxes. And actually, I'm not even talking about a Porsche 911; more like, every German car, especially Audi/BMW/Merc and up. Effortless is the best word for it, like you push the pedal down and you don't even realize you're in the triple digits because it's so smooth. But the big problem is the roads and the culture around speed. America doesn't have either of those things, and probably never will.

arcticfox 8y ago
> But the big problem is the roads and the culture around speed. America doesn't have either of those things, and probably never will. A culture of safety is not a "big problem" IMO. The "big problem" is that a vehicle at 120mph requires an insane stopping distance. On dry asphalt: * 60mph: 172 ft * 120mph: 688 ft [1] http://forensicdynamics.com/stopping-braking-distance-calculator http://forensicdynamics.com/stopping-braking-distance-calcul...
- tiernano 8y ago
  Doesn't this stopping distance depend on the car? Said German cars have bigger breaks and bigger tyre surface and have been proven to stop quicker. Top Gear showed this often (Australian trip with the m6, Bentley and gtr) all stopping in less than half the Highway Code distance...)
  - tomatotomato37 8y ago
    Yes, it matters enough that you should pretty much ignore any skid calculator without a weight component. Consumer reports even put together a list on which cars have the best "safety performance" that measured things like braking distance; the SUVs rank pretty hilariously https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/best-car-safety-performance/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/best-car-safety-p...
  - oppositelock 8y ago
    Stopping distance does depend on the car, but physics has a bigger influence. The kinetic energy in a car is 1/2mv^2. No matter what car you're in, going twice as fast requires dissipating four times the energy in order to stop. So, take a sporty car with twice the braking performance of a basic car, and you can go 1.44x as fast as the basic car while still having the same stopping distance. I have a very light car that I use on the track, with an amazing amount of braking for its weight. Full deceleration happens at 2.5g, that's not pleasant. There are also comfort limits here.
    - tiernano 8y ago
      Might not be pleasant but guessing hitting something would be less pleasant...
    - boznz 8y ago
      Reaction time has an even bigger influence. Slower speed = more reaction time
      - KnightOfWords 8y ago
        Distance covered during reaction time scales linearly with speed, while distance covered under braking goes up exponentially.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    The 100 km/h stopping distance of a BMW M5 is ~30m, compared to 41m for a Honda Fit. https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-quickest-stoppers-60mph https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-quickest-stoppers-60mph That's a pretty good performance (but it's a $100K car), but at 200 km/hr, the stopping distance of the M5 increase to 124m (which makes sense since a 200 km/h car has 4X the kinetic energy of a 100 km/h car) Once out of the specialty racing cars, all of the cars "faster stoppers" list took about 27m-30m to stop from 100 km/h so that seems about the best that can be achieved today.
  - GorgeRonde 8y ago
    Since cars and trucks weight vary highly, there is actually a norm that sets how big the breaks should be so that everyone has the same emergency halting distance. This diminishes the chances of a pile-up.
- hnuser123456 8y ago
  If you're looking to prove who has a better "culture of safety", shouldn't you be looking at accident statistics, not some random basic kinematics without context? There are places that drive slower but have more accidents.
  - arcticfox 8y ago
    I suppose, although these "random basic kinematics" are actually "highly relevant first principles of safety" in automobiles (stopping distance). If you prefer starting from accident statistics, here are a variety of studies across a variety of locations that generally show a ~2% increase in accidents per 1 km/h of speed. [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/speed_is_a_central_issue_in_road_safety/speed_and_accident_risk_en https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowle...
- hrktb 8y ago
  Stopping distance is not an issue if you don’t need to stop in the first place. That means good road maintenance, no abrupt turns, properly protecting access (even from wild life, which can mean underpass for big animals), easy way out for people to go slow if they feel it won’t do it for them, frequent info panels in case anything happens. Of course for all of that there needs to be an underlying safety culture.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    properly protecting access (even from wild life, which can mean underpass for big animals) Too bad no such roads exist, not even the Autobahn (warning, graphic photos): http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/10/deer-disintegrates-on-impact-after-being-hit-by-a-car-at-140mph/ http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/10/deer-disintegrates-on-... And not even race tracks are guaranteed to be animal-free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_da_Matta#Collision_with_deer_during_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_da_Matta#Collision_w...
- 013a 8y ago
  I think my broader point is really that, as assistive tech continues to increase in reliability and deployment breadth, Speed is something we as a society should consider raising. German cars are feel AMAZING at high speeds. They're not the only ones, but dollar for dollar its easier to take a German car to 120 than any other nationality. Why? Because they're made to be driven on the Autobahn. They are, all else equal, safer to drive at high speed than American or Japanese cars because Germany has a stronger culture and laws around allowing cars to drive fast. As we add assistive tech, it becomes safer to take cars this fast. Of course, there's a lot of other things to solve; roads, adoption, etc. And we can't solve the physics of stopping and impact force. But the benefits might outweigh the costs. But Volvo, if we take them at their word, is saying "we don't care. This is as fast as you can go. Enjoy." And sure, maybe their speed limit is fast enough. But, really, this move is just posturing. The tangible effect that it will have on vehicle safety likely won't be large; at best, it might stop some dumb kids from taking their dad's car out for a joyride and driving it off a bridge at 130, but its not going to stop them from doing the exact same thing at 100, or even 60 (on some backroads that speed is just as deadly). When they limit their top speed, what they're also quietly saying "these cars are only engineered to go this fast". That engineering is why German cars are so great to drive in the triple digits. Its not just the platform; Volvo has computerized assistive tech. Is it tested to actually work at triple digits? Probably. Now that they have a corporate-wide mandated speed limit, will they continue to develop and test it at triple digits? I don't know. And that's the real disappointment. We're now just "alright" with the speed we've always been driving. Cars could become "personal bullet trains". With enough assistive tech, give certified models their own barriered lane and, if the weather conditions permit, let them go 140. But Volvo isn't interested in that future, and that's very sad indeed.
  - dcwca 8y ago
    I think your whole premise here is, North American speed limits would go up if only we had enough cars that felt good at higher speeds? If so, I don't think automotive performance and lack of "smooth feel" at high speed are the things governing our speed limits.
    - 013a 8y ago
joezydeco 8y ago
Geography and equipment do not change your ability to react to events. I've driven 180-200 km/h on the German autobahns (in a car that could handle it) and I could tell I was driving at the edge or slightly beyond my vision and reaction time. It was freaking scary. I don't know if every driver out there could tell when they were hitting that limit. The golf cart analogy doesn't apply here IMO.
- zepearl 8y ago
  Similar for me: ~160-180 km/h in Germany and ~130-140 km/h in Switzerland is my limit since always, if the highway is in good condition + weather is good + traffic is low + I'm not tired + etc... .
- papageek 8y ago
  Are you talking about curving roads? 220 km/h is no problem on straight flat stretches.
  - philsnow 8y ago
    the autobahn is specifically designed not to have unbroken flat straight stretches because that disengages the drivers
youeseh 8y ago
Yes, couldn't agree more. It has a lot to do with what is enforced in America and Canada. Rather than trying to limit reckless, unpredictable driving on the aggressive end, and driving that impedes the flow of traffic on the conservative end (which causes others to be aggressive and reckless), we've optimized for the enforcement of speed.

by 013a 8y ago

arcticfox 8y ago

> But the big problem is the roads and the culture around speed. America doesn't have either of those things, and probably never will. A culture of safety is not a "big problem" IMO. The "big problem" is that a vehicle at 120mph requires an insane stopping distance. On dry asphalt: * 60mph: 172 ft * 120mph: 688 ft [1] http://forensicdynamics.com/stopping-braking-distance-calculator http://forensicdynamics.com/stopping-braking-distance-calcul...

tiernano 8y ago
Doesn't this stopping distance depend on the car? Said German cars have bigger breaks and bigger tyre surface and have been proven to stop quicker. Top Gear showed this often (Australian trip with the m6, Bentley and gtr) all stopping in less than half the Highway Code distance...)
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  Yes, it matters enough that you should pretty much ignore any skid calculator without a weight component. Consumer reports even put together a list on which cars have the best "safety performance" that measured things like braking distance; the SUVs rank pretty hilariously https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/best-car-safety-performance/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/best-car-safety-p...
- oppositelock 8y ago
  Stopping distance does depend on the car, but physics has a bigger influence. The kinetic energy in a car is 1/2mv^2. No matter what car you're in, going twice as fast requires dissipating four times the energy in order to stop. So, take a sporty car with twice the braking performance of a basic car, and you can go 1.44x as fast as the basic car while still having the same stopping distance. I have a very light car that I use on the track, with an amazing amount of braking for its weight. Full deceleration happens at 2.5g, that's not pleasant. There are also comfort limits here.
  - tiernano 8y ago
    Might not be pleasant but guessing hitting something would be less pleasant...
  - boznz 8y ago
    Reaction time has an even bigger influence. Slower speed = more reaction time
    - KnightOfWords 8y ago
      Distance covered during reaction time scales linearly with speed, while distance covered under braking goes up exponentially.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  The 100 km/h stopping distance of a BMW M5 is ~30m, compared to 41m for a Honda Fit. https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-quickest-stoppers-60mph https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-quickest-stoppers-60mph That's a pretty good performance (but it's a $100K car), but at 200 km/hr, the stopping distance of the M5 increase to 124m (which makes sense since a 200 km/h car has 4X the kinetic energy of a 100 km/h car) Once out of the specialty racing cars, all of the cars "faster stoppers" list took about 27m-30m to stop from 100 km/h so that seems about the best that can be achieved today.
- GorgeRonde 8y ago
  Since cars and trucks weight vary highly, there is actually a norm that sets how big the breaks should be so that everyone has the same emergency halting distance. This diminishes the chances of a pile-up.
hnuser123456 8y ago
If you're looking to prove who has a better "culture of safety", shouldn't you be looking at accident statistics, not some random basic kinematics without context? There are places that drive slower but have more accidents.
- arcticfox 8y ago
  I suppose, although these "random basic kinematics" are actually "highly relevant first principles of safety" in automobiles (stopping distance). If you prefer starting from accident statistics, here are a variety of studies across a variety of locations that generally show a ~2% increase in accidents per 1 km/h of speed. [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/speed_is_a_central_issue_in_road_safety/speed_and_accident_risk_en https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowle...
hrktb 8y ago
Stopping distance is not an issue if you don’t need to stop in the first place. That means good road maintenance, no abrupt turns, properly protecting access (even from wild life, which can mean underpass for big animals), easy way out for people to go slow if they feel it won’t do it for them, frequent info panels in case anything happens. Of course for all of that there needs to be an underlying safety culture.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  properly protecting access (even from wild life, which can mean underpass for big animals) Too bad no such roads exist, not even the Autobahn (warning, graphic photos): http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/10/deer-disintegrates-on-impact-after-being-hit-by-a-car-at-140mph/ http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/10/deer-disintegrates-on-... And not even race tracks are guaranteed to be animal-free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_da_Matta#Collision_with_deer_during_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_da_Matta#Collision_w...
013a 8y ago
I think my broader point is really that, as assistive tech continues to increase in reliability and deployment breadth, Speed is something we as a society should consider raising. German cars are feel AMAZING at high speeds. They're not the only ones, but dollar for dollar its easier to take a German car to 120 than any other nationality. Why? Because they're made to be driven on the Autobahn. They are, all else equal, safer to drive at high speed than American or Japanese cars because Germany has a stronger culture and laws around allowing cars to drive fast. As we add assistive tech, it becomes safer to take cars this fast. Of course, there's a lot of other things to solve; roads, adoption, etc. And we can't solve the physics of stopping and impact force. But the benefits might outweigh the costs. But Volvo, if we take them at their word, is saying "we don't care. This is as fast as you can go. Enjoy." And sure, maybe their speed limit is fast enough. But, really, this move is just posturing. The tangible effect that it will have on vehicle safety likely won't be large; at best, it might stop some dumb kids from taking their dad's car out for a joyride and driving it off a bridge at 130, but its not going to stop them from doing the exact same thing at 100, or even 60 (on some backroads that speed is just as deadly). When they limit their top speed, what they're also quietly saying "these cars are only engineered to go this fast". That engineering is why German cars are so great to drive in the triple digits. Its not just the platform; Volvo has computerized assistive tech. Is it tested to actually work at triple digits? Probably. Now that they have a corporate-wide mandated speed limit, will they continue to develop and test it at triple digits? I don't know. And that's the real disappointment. We're now just "alright" with the speed we've always been driving. Cars could become "personal bullet trains". With enough assistive tech, give certified models their own barriered lane and, if the weather conditions permit, let them go 140. But Volvo isn't interested in that future, and that's very sad indeed.
- dcwca 8y ago
  I think your whole premise here is, North American speed limits would go up if only we had enough cars that felt good at higher speeds? If so, I don't think automotive performance and lack of "smooth feel" at high speed are the things governing our speed limits.
  - 013a 8y ago

joezydeco 8y ago

Geography and equipment do not change your ability to react to events. I've driven 180-200 km/h on the German autobahns (in a car that could handle it) and I could tell I was driving at the edge or slightly beyond my vision and reaction time. It was freaking scary. I don't know if every driver out there could tell when they were hitting that limit. The golf cart analogy doesn't apply here IMO.

zepearl 8y ago
Similar for me: ~160-180 km/h in Germany and ~130-140 km/h in Switzerland is my limit since always, if the highway is in good condition + weather is good + traffic is low + I'm not tired + etc... .
papageek 8y ago
Are you talking about curving roads? 220 km/h is no problem on straight flat stretches.
- philsnow 8y ago
  the autobahn is specifically designed not to have unbroken flat straight stretches because that disengages the drivers

youeseh 8y ago

Yes, couldn't agree more. It has a lot to do with what is enforced in America and Canada. Rather than trying to limit reckless, unpredictable driving on the aggressive end, and driving that impedes the flow of traffic on the conservative end (which causes others to be aggressive and reckless), we've optimized for the enforcement of speed.