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I was born in NYC to Haitian immigrants, if you didn't know Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of We

I was born in NYC to Haitian immigrants, if you didn't know Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of West Indian first generation children, a common theme for us was that we were "tougher" than the white kids who grew up in NYC because they lived easy lives. It was typical short sighted thinking that young kids do. I wonder what that kid would say now after reading this article. A lot of the people I grew up with went to crappy colleges. I did too, and we were too broke to even think about tuition so PELL grants funded my education. College Textbooks? You mean PDFs from The Pirate Bay. I made it out and got a nice job in tech, but like many of my peers it is I who support my parents. I pay their health insurance, I lend them money for groceries, and I'm financing my dad's chemotherapy. Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? When in fact they are a liability budget wise? I wish more articles were written about this side of the coin, it is my experience that many young people, especially minorities, are shouldering the burden of "elder care" earlier than they ever thought they would.

david-cako 8y ago
>I made it out and got a nice job in tech, but like many of my peers it is I who support my parents. I pay their health insurance, I lend them money for groceries, and I'm financing my dad's chemotherapy. Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? When in fact they are a liability budget wise? I can only imagine how difficult that is. This is an interesting distinction between western and eastern culture too. I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier.
- nikhizzle 8y ago
  So I disagree about the distinction, I have many Indian and Chinese friends who have no obligation to take care of their parents (admittedly from middle class backgrounds). And then I have two good friends who are American of long ago European descent who definitely help their parents out with the bills extensively. To answer your question though, I've seen it as common in both eastern and western families of means to not be expected to take care of your parents as much.
  - jmathai 8y ago
    Heh, my reply is essentially the opposite of yours.
- jmathai 8y ago
  I don't believe so. There are 2 cultural differences I've noticed as a son to immigrant parents in the US. 1) My parents primary goal was to make life better for their kids. It was in a nutshell why they immigrated in the first place - not to improve their own lives. 2) It's the responsibility of the kids to care for their parents. The idea of nursing homes is so foreign and repulsive to my parents (and myself for that matter). This is a generalization but, from my experience, that's baked into eastern culture across classes.
- godot 8y ago
  It's the opposite. The obligation to take care of your parents is definitely more pronounced in eastern households. See filial piety [1]. I'm Chinese and grew up in both Asia and the US. First of all, wealthy Chinese is a pretty small minority, so most working 20-somethings and 30-somethings are paying a portion of their paychecks to parents to support them. For those lucky enough to come from wealthy families, most are still expected to care for them in other non-monetary ways. For example in America many Chinese immigrants of the older generation can't drive; taking time off your work and taking your parents to their doctor's appointments is often a responsibility you have. (which of course means you can't live far away from them; there's going to be more and more work caring for them as they grow older.) Like GP, I also grew up in a lower income family and made it out well in tech. My only advantage is that I'm older and started working 15 years ago, which lead to being able to afford to buy a house during the lowest years of the housing market (2010-12) so I have a really low mortgage in crazy bay area. I don't know how anyone in the bay would be able to save up for a house if they have to support their parents in addition to paying their own rent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety
  - xvedejas 8y ago
    The question was about wealthier eastern households, not western versus eastern. I too wonder about the differences between richer and poorer eastern households.
    - mntmoss 8y ago
      What comes to mind is the stories about "parachute kids" with (relatively) wealthy parents that sent the kid abroad, ostensibly for study. They end up in an extreme form of latchkey existence - still Eastern in intent, but living largely alone and with few obligations, they tend to be adrift at a much earlier stage of life, leading to occasional news stories about crimes that earn prison time, or of "little emperors and empresses" that have been spoiled and have difficulty adjusting to interaction with the rest of the world. The film "Better Luck Tomorrow" explored this - not specifically the parachute kid status, but the trouble that overprivileged Asian teens get into. It's fictionalized but also based on some real events.
- chaostheory 8y ago
  > I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier. For East Asian families, it's still there but it is non-existent from a financial perspective. It's no different from the article even though it describes the US. I've personally seen several scenarios of approx 30 individual families: 1. Kids were either extremely spoiled so they ended up with a poor work ethic, were incompetent, or both. They are not millennials. Parents ended up supporting them for the rest of their lives. Their wealth eventually consumed in one generation with their businesses either being sold or destroyed. In all these cases, the parents were content with grandchildren. 2. Kids were high achievers. Stereotypical scenario of getting into the Ivys or international equivalent, with the right finance, law, or engineering jobs right after with continued progression. Parents still gave a lot of financial gifts even though they weren't needed. The only real expectation when the parents are financially well off is that their children still take care of them when old age becomes an issue i.e. no nursing home. parents will live with one of their children until they die
- wardbradt 8y ago
  Your comment at the end made me think of a story I read a while back. https://www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/9sbeqy/visiting_parents/e8noava/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/9sbeqy/... While the story doesn't mention an "obligation" of the elder generation's children, I think it brings out a very interesting point. Unlike the US/ Western Europe, in Russia, and likely other previously-Soviet countries, there isn't a noticeable divide between those with rich parents and those without. No one has rich parents.
loganfrederick 8y ago
I strongly agree with this and relate as someone who makes a very good living as a computer programmer but has received nearly no financial assistance from parents (a few thousands dollars for college tuition but not all of it covered) who do not have much in liquid assets. The parent comment highlights is an important divide that's exacerbating the wealth gap in the USA: The difference between millennials whose Gen X parents are a financial liability versus a financial advantage. The Gen X'ers are either passing onto their kids either hundreds of thousands in investment and savings income, or tens of thousands in medical and elderly care liabilities. Few in my "millennial" generation are talking about it, but as their parents get older, the contrast is getting more noticeable among friends who have to deal with very different parental situations. It's dangerously perpetuating "wealth gaps" across generations. I fear it will not end well for society when more debt-laden adults see others who are coasting off of what their parents' gave them.
- marktangotango 8y ago
  I personally think this reality will make social democrats mainstream in no time (speaking of US). Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently.
  - perfmode 8y ago
    Indeed. Either they will take over the Democratic Party or they’ll form a third and leave the old one to rot. Since there are probably thousands of DB tables with dem and republican hardcoded, my money is on take over.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    > Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently. You mean the person who was 1 at the time Bernie Sanders, having already been involved in the 60s Civil Rights movement and mayor of Burlington for 3 terms, was first elected to the US Congress?
- 40acres 8y ago
  Yes, this is income inequality, generational wealth, and the racial wealth gap all rolled into one. The worst thing about it is that I've completely reoriented my free time to prepare for interviews so that I can double my salary -- that will hopefully give me enough breathing room to accelerate my savings to buy a home and pass on wealth to my children. The game is the game...
weberc2 8y ago
> Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? Pardon the naive question, but what sort of windfall from Mom and Dad to people expect when saving up for a house? Is it common on the coasts for parents to help their children buy a house? I've never thought to plan for help from my parents for anything (I'll be happy if they can cover their own care).
- kokokokoko 8y ago
  It is common for first time home buyers to get a significant portion(if not all) of their first deposit for their mortgage(often 20%) from either family assistance or inheritance. This is especially common in the more expensive housing markets in the US.
  - throwaway-1283 8y ago
    Is that true? The last article I read about millennial homebuyers is that the reason outstanding mortgage balances are increasing is because more millennials are putting down less than 20% because they couldn't otherwise afford to.
    - bradlys 8y ago
      From anecdotal data, yes - very true. I think you're seeing a wider spread than before. People who are trying to get homes with less % down than before and people who are using their parents' money. An article I read (that used anecdotal data from real estate agents) was suggesting that around 35% of new home buyers in SF Bay are getting partial to full down payment from parents. Anyone in my social circle who bought their first home (anywhere on the west coast) and is in their 20's or 30's, they didn't do it by themselves. Their parents chipped in quite a bit.
    - astura 8y ago
      In a homeowner and the vast majority of my peers are too. I know -ZERO- people who had this sort of financial assistance for a down payment. We all saved up our own money. I live on the east coast though.
krsdcbl 8y ago
Strongly agree with this. I live in Europe, my tuition was free, and the paradigms are hugely different to the US, with things like: free health care, and such. And still, the article reads to me like "upper middle class kids have it so hard today because they can't get as rich as their parents too easily". The economic shift is real, but the wealth of our MIDDLE CLASS parent generation was an oddity in itself, not comparable to the reality of most people now OR then.
- weberc2 8y ago
  In addition to your observation, the tone of this article suggests that young people have some right to live in Manhattan or to own a $400K condo by the beach in San Diego. I'm a millenial, and I'm not aware of such an attitude among my parent's generation. It seems perhaps my generation has greater expectations than our parents' while also having worse economic circumstances. Even still, $100K household income is an affordable middleclass lifestyle outside of the downtown area of major metros.
Nydhal 8y ago
Just a reminded that the other side of the coin is not 2nd generation immigrants only but also 1st generation who might be even more burdened.
bronxbomber92 8y ago
Agreed. I'm in a similar situation (working in tech in the bay area and supporting my mom by covering her financial needs). I have two colleagues also in similar situations. It makes me wonder how many others in my peer group are faced with these same challenges..

david-cako 8y ago

>I made it out and got a nice job in tech, but like many of my peers it is I who support my parents. I pay their health insurance, I lend them money for groceries, and I'm financing my dad's chemotherapy. Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? When in fact they are a liability budget wise? I can only imagine how difficult that is. This is an interesting distinction between western and eastern culture too. I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier.

nikhizzle 8y ago
So I disagree about the distinction, I have many Indian and Chinese friends who have no obligation to take care of their parents (admittedly from middle class backgrounds). And then I have two good friends who are American of long ago European descent who definitely help their parents out with the bills extensively. To answer your question though, I've seen it as common in both eastern and western families of means to not be expected to take care of your parents as much.
- jmathai 8y ago
  Heh, my reply is essentially the opposite of yours.
jmathai 8y ago
I don't believe so. There are 2 cultural differences I've noticed as a son to immigrant parents in the US. 1) My parents primary goal was to make life better for their kids. It was in a nutshell why they immigrated in the first place - not to improve their own lives. 2) It's the responsibility of the kids to care for their parents. The idea of nursing homes is so foreign and repulsive to my parents (and myself for that matter). This is a generalization but, from my experience, that's baked into eastern culture across classes.
godot 8y ago
It's the opposite. The obligation to take care of your parents is definitely more pronounced in eastern households. See filial piety [1]. I'm Chinese and grew up in both Asia and the US. First of all, wealthy Chinese is a pretty small minority, so most working 20-somethings and 30-somethings are paying a portion of their paychecks to parents to support them. For those lucky enough to come from wealthy families, most are still expected to care for them in other non-monetary ways. For example in America many Chinese immigrants of the older generation can't drive; taking time off your work and taking your parents to their doctor's appointments is often a responsibility you have. (which of course means you can't live far away from them; there's going to be more and more work caring for them as they grow older.) Like GP, I also grew up in a lower income family and made it out well in tech. My only advantage is that I'm older and started working 15 years ago, which lead to being able to afford to buy a house during the lowest years of the housing market (2010-12) so I have a really low mortgage in crazy bay area. I don't know how anyone in the bay would be able to save up for a house if they have to support their parents in addition to paying their own rent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety
- xvedejas 8y ago
  The question was about wealthier eastern households, not western versus eastern. I too wonder about the differences between richer and poorer eastern households.
  - mntmoss 8y ago
    What comes to mind is the stories about "parachute kids" with (relatively) wealthy parents that sent the kid abroad, ostensibly for study. They end up in an extreme form of latchkey existence - still Eastern in intent, but living largely alone and with few obligations, they tend to be adrift at a much earlier stage of life, leading to occasional news stories about crimes that earn prison time, or of "little emperors and empresses" that have been spoiled and have difficulty adjusting to interaction with the rest of the world. The film "Better Luck Tomorrow" explored this - not specifically the parachute kid status, but the trouble that overprivileged Asian teens get into. It's fictionalized but also based on some real events.
chaostheory 8y ago
> I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier. For East Asian families, it's still there but it is non-existent from a financial perspective. It's no different from the article even though it describes the US. I've personally seen several scenarios of approx 30 individual families: 1. Kids were either extremely spoiled so they ended up with a poor work ethic, were incompetent, or both. They are not millennials. Parents ended up supporting them for the rest of their lives. Their wealth eventually consumed in one generation with their businesses either being sold or destroyed. In all these cases, the parents were content with grandchildren. 2. Kids were high achievers. Stereotypical scenario of getting into the Ivys or international equivalent, with the right finance, law, or engineering jobs right after with continued progression. Parents still gave a lot of financial gifts even though they weren't needed. The only real expectation when the parents are financially well off is that their children still take care of them when old age becomes an issue i.e. no nursing home. parents will live with one of their children until they die
wardbradt 8y ago
Your comment at the end made me think of a story I read a while back. https://www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/9sbeqy/visiting_parents/e8noava/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/9sbeqy/... While the story doesn't mention an "obligation" of the elder generation's children, I think it brings out a very interesting point. Unlike the US/ Western Europe, in Russia, and likely other previously-Soviet countries, there isn't a noticeable divide between those with rich parents and those without. No one has rich parents.

loganfrederick 8y ago

I strongly agree with this and relate as someone who makes a very good living as a computer programmer but has received nearly no financial assistance from parents (a few thousands dollars for college tuition but not all of it covered) who do not have much in liquid assets. The parent comment highlights is an important divide that's exacerbating the wealth gap in the USA: The difference between millennials whose Gen X parents are a financial liability versus a financial advantage. The Gen X'ers are either passing onto their kids either hundreds of thousands in investment and savings income, or tens of thousands in medical and elderly care liabilities. Few in my "millennial" generation are talking about it, but as their parents get older, the contrast is getting more noticeable among friends who have to deal with very different parental situations. It's dangerously perpetuating "wealth gaps" across generations. I fear it will not end well for society when more debt-laden adults see others who are coasting off of what their parents' gave them.

marktangotango 8y ago
I personally think this reality will make social democrats mainstream in no time (speaking of US). Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently.
- perfmode 8y ago
  Indeed. Either they will take over the Democratic Party or they’ll form a third and leave the old one to rot. Since there are probably thousands of DB tables with dem and republican hardcoded, my money is on take over.
- ethbro 8y ago
  > Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently. You mean the person who was 1 at the time Bernie Sanders, having already been involved in the 60s Civil Rights movement and mayor of Burlington for 3 terms, was first elected to the US Congress?
40acres 8y ago
Yes, this is income inequality, generational wealth, and the racial wealth gap all rolled into one. The worst thing about it is that I've completely reoriented my free time to prepare for interviews so that I can double my salary -- that will hopefully give me enough breathing room to accelerate my savings to buy a home and pass on wealth to my children. The game is the game...

weberc2 8y ago

> Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? Pardon the naive question, but what sort of windfall from Mom and Dad to people expect when saving up for a house? Is it common on the coasts for parents to help their children buy a house? I've never thought to plan for help from my parents for anything (I'll be happy if they can cover their own care).

kokokokoko 8y ago
It is common for first time home buyers to get a significant portion(if not all) of their first deposit for their mortgage(often 20%) from either family assistance or inheritance. This is especially common in the more expensive housing markets in the US.
- throwaway-1283 8y ago
  Is that true? The last article I read about millennial homebuyers is that the reason outstanding mortgage balances are increasing is because more millennials are putting down less than 20% because they couldn't otherwise afford to.
  - bradlys 8y ago
    From anecdotal data, yes - very true. I think you're seeing a wider spread than before. People who are trying to get homes with less % down than before and people who are using their parents' money. An article I read (that used anecdotal data from real estate agents) was suggesting that around 35% of new home buyers in SF Bay are getting partial to full down payment from parents. Anyone in my social circle who bought their first home (anywhere on the west coast) and is in their 20's or 30's, they didn't do it by themselves. Their parents chipped in quite a bit.
  - astura 8y ago
    In a homeowner and the vast majority of my peers are too. I know -ZERO- people who had this sort of financial assistance for a down payment. We all saved up our own money. I live on the east coast though.

krsdcbl 8y ago

Strongly agree with this. I live in Europe, my tuition was free, and the paradigms are hugely different to the US, with things like: free health care, and such. And still, the article reads to me like "upper middle class kids have it so hard today because they can't get as rich as their parents too easily". The economic shift is real, but the wealth of our MIDDLE CLASS parent generation was an oddity in itself, not comparable to the reality of most people now OR then.

weberc2 8y ago
In addition to your observation, the tone of this article suggests that young people have some right to live in Manhattan or to own a $400K condo by the beach in San Diego. I'm a millenial, and I'm not aware of such an attitude among my parent's generation. It seems perhaps my generation has greater expectations than our parents' while also having worse economic circumstances. Even still, $100K household income is an affordable middleclass lifestyle outside of the downtown area of major metros.

Nydhal 8y ago

Just a reminded that the other side of the coin is not 2nd generation immigrants only but also 1st generation who might be even more burdened.

bronxbomber92 8y ago

Agreed. I'm in a similar situation (working in tech in the bay area and supporting my mom by covering her financial needs). I have two colleagues also in similar situations. It makes me wonder how many others in my peer group are faced with these same challenges..