7 ms·

Salary transparency is not possible and would be highly misleading because jobs are not standardized. A "senior Java developer" can be anything. Then you would

Salary transparency is not possible and would be highly misleading because jobs are not standardized. A "senior Java developer" can be anything. Then you would have to provide a job description in a comparable format for every salary which is not trivial, if feasible at all. Salary transparency without job descriptions would be akin to showing house prices without describing house details - location, square footage, number of bedrooms, etc.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.
- macinjosh 8y ago
  IMO, companies should not be allowed to keep salaries private but I do think employees should be able to keep their own salaries private. I don't want coworkers or the public to know my income for all sorts of reasons. It's just not anyone else's business. This whole notion that the only way for someone who thinks they aren't paid enough to get a raise is to know everyone else's salary and then use that as leverage is absurd. If you feel like you aren't paid enough ask for a raise and explain why you feel that way. If you're turned down look for a different job that values you at a level you're comfortable with. If you still can't make the amount you desire maybe then it is time to check your own assumptions and see what you can do to provide more value so that you can get it in return.
  - Frondo 8y ago
    It's absolutely the business of everyone who works for that company. People are trading their time based on certain assumptions, including the viability of the company; seeing the company's books is a vital way to do that. "Trust me" is a shitty position for companies to put workers in, and yet we see again and again how they go under and leave people (individuals, families, etc) in the lurch. Secrecy never benefits the person in the weaker position.
- kaitai 8y ago
  And I'll point out that state governments often do this, and it seems to work fine for them.
  - cascom 8y ago
    I'm not sure we have the same definition of "fine" - government workers are usually not a shining light when it comes to motivation, productivity, etc.
- renholder 8y ago
  Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer 1's pay salary and developer 2's pay salary. Now, developer 1 has a rage-boner because developer 2 is being paid more but there's the reason of his/her desirable skills being utilised in the role. Yet, developer 1 doesn't see this qualifiable reason and just sees this as being unfair/unequal. Pay transparency would only exacerbate the current problems around pay, not help alleviate them.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.
    - renholder 8y ago
      >There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer. Citations?
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        For what? For pay transparency look at Congress staffers, lot of state employees, a lot of CEOs, the military or some tech companies. For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.
        renholder 8y ago
        >For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. So the markets have been improperly functioning, this entire time, because they didn't have the relevant information...?
        8y ago
- ameister14 8y ago
  If all salaries are transparent, you get even more heavy incentives for wage-stagnation.
- dgudkov 8y ago
  >Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it. Okay. Let's make a thought experiment. Company A. Senior Java Developer. $100K. Company B. Senior Java Developer. $120K. Question: is the Java developer in Company A underpaid?
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    What’s the point of this thought experiment?
    - dgudkov 8y ago
      How can you understand fairness of pay from that information?
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        You can’t. It depends on the situation. I am sure the people working there can put it better into context. I still don’t understand the thought experiment. How about: Car A costs $30000, Car B costs $50000. Which is the better value? Makes as little sense.
        dgudkov 8y ago
        Exactly. That's the point. Just pricing information (be it salary or car prices) makes little sense. Market transparency that you mentioned earlier makes sense only for standardized goods/services. Software jobs are not standardized and many people don't want their colleagues to know how much their earn.

maxxxxx 8y ago

Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.

macinjosh 8y ago
IMO, companies should not be allowed to keep salaries private but I do think employees should be able to keep their own salaries private. I don't want coworkers or the public to know my income for all sorts of reasons. It's just not anyone else's business. This whole notion that the only way for someone who thinks they aren't paid enough to get a raise is to know everyone else's salary and then use that as leverage is absurd. If you feel like you aren't paid enough ask for a raise and explain why you feel that way. If you're turned down look for a different job that values you at a level you're comfortable with. If you still can't make the amount you desire maybe then it is time to check your own assumptions and see what you can do to provide more value so that you can get it in return.
- Frondo 8y ago
  It's absolutely the business of everyone who works for that company. People are trading their time based on certain assumptions, including the viability of the company; seeing the company's books is a vital way to do that. "Trust me" is a shitty position for companies to put workers in, and yet we see again and again how they go under and leave people (individuals, families, etc) in the lurch. Secrecy never benefits the person in the weaker position.
kaitai 8y ago
And I'll point out that state governments often do this, and it seems to work fine for them.
- cascom 8y ago
  I'm not sure we have the same definition of "fine" - government workers are usually not a shining light when it comes to motivation, productivity, etc.
renholder 8y ago
Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer 1's pay salary and developer 2's pay salary. Now, developer 1 has a rage-boner because developer 2 is being paid more but there's the reason of his/her desirable skills being utilised in the role. Yet, developer 1 doesn't see this qualifiable reason and just sees this as being unfair/unequal. Pay transparency would only exacerbate the current problems around pay, not help alleviate them.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.
  - renholder 8y ago
    >There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer. Citations?
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      For what? For pay transparency look at Congress staffers, lot of state employees, a lot of CEOs, the military or some tech companies. For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.
      - renholder 8y ago
        >For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. So the markets have been improperly functioning, this entire time, because they didn't have the relevant information...?
        8y ago
ameister14 8y ago
If all salaries are transparent, you get even more heavy incentives for wage-stagnation.
dgudkov 8y ago
>Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it. Okay. Let's make a thought experiment. Company A. Senior Java Developer. $100K. Company B. Senior Java Developer. $120K. Question: is the Java developer in Company A underpaid?
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  What’s the point of this thought experiment?
  - dgudkov 8y ago
    How can you understand fairness of pay from that information?
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      You can’t. It depends on the situation. I am sure the people working there can put it better into context. I still don’t understand the thought experiment. How about: Car A costs $30000, Car B costs $50000. Which is the better value? Makes as little sense.
      - dgudkov 8y ago
        Exactly. That's the point. Just pricing information (be it salary or car prices) makes little sense. Market transparency that you mentioned earlier makes sense only for standardized goods/services. Software jobs are not standardized and many people don't want their colleagues to know how much their earn.