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I've met a member of every class that's lied about "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" (by the way, isn't that meant to be an ironic paradox?). From th

I've met a member of every class that's lied about "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" (by the way, isn't that meant to be an ironic paradox?). From the rich white male Boomer to an immigrant Chinese business owner, everyone seems to feel the need to make more of their struggle than it was. Like, it was already a struggle, why lie and make it seem more so? You started your business by working 12 hour days funded by the pennies in your pocket... And the 300k business loan someone was willing to give you on the basis of your bachelor's in business, which meant a hell of a lot in 1957. Or the classic "came into America on a boat with seven dollars in my pocket," not mentioning the family safety net back home or the fact that the 7$ was more like 7,000 and this was 1965. But it's obvious why people do that, because people have been doing it for ten thousand years and it's nothing new. We like to feel important, and if our truth doesn't make us feel important we'll lie a bit until we feel important again. So I'm tired of old people making flippant statements like above about millennials that are either completely off base or simply applicable to every human on the planet, for as long as we've been able to talk. Allow me to engage in my own psychological fallacy - I feel like with enough years under your belt, you should just know that's how we work.

beefield 8y ago
There is funny (or would be funny if it was not so serious in the societal concequences) research by Paul Piff on this phenomenom: https://planetsave.com/2013/12/23/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-reveals-how-feeling-wealthy-changes-our-behavior-ted-video/ https://planetsave.com/2013/12/23/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-...
screye 8y ago
> "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" (by the way, isn't that meant to be an ironic paradox?). Cracks me up every time. It most certainly is. The few people who I know have "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps" in the proverbial sense, almost never use such dismissive terminology.
lordnacho 8y ago
I concur. What irks me the most is when the backstory contains unmentioned unethical elements. I come across several people in business who all gave the "oh it was so hard in the beginning" while not mentioning their dark pattern websites (people unwittingly buying subscription), wolf-of-wall-street v1 of their broking business, or outright money laundering. There needs to be a catchy phrase for the "I had it so hard" story.
- timdavila 8y ago
  "Uphill both ways"
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  4 Yorkshiremen (from the Monty Python sketch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE
axaxs 8y ago
That, along with "my teachers always said i wouldn't amount to anything." Seriously, I've been in some -rough- public schools with literal criminals, and never once heard a teacher come close to saying something like that.
- thanksDr 8y ago
  On the last day of 6th grade public school, my teacher pulled me aside in his very final moment of power over me to say exactly this. He made it quite longwinded. This wasn't a rough school - I was in a suburban gifted program.
  - nitrogen 8y ago
    It must be the middle of the road suburban public schools with gifted programs where this is a thing, because I (indirectly) heard the same thing at high school.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      Lower-ghetto public school with a half functioning kitchen, got called "ugly" and told to sit outside by my 5th grade art teacher. She continued working there for 6 more years before taking on a Director-role at the local community college, interestingly. Joke was on her though, because my mother thinks I'm quite handsome heh. /adds his card neatly to the anecdote pile
- chasd00 8y ago
  heh my friend had a HS teacher that stapled taco bell job applications to every F grade. that's pretty harsh.
eanzenberg 8y ago
There's no such thing as an adult emerging from the woods having learned everything themselves. Because of this, it's a major fallacy to expect it from people who have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" because you will find something about their background that refutes it. Let's say, some people are more privileged than others.
ip26 8y ago
Could just be as simple as nobody wants to sound like their success was handed to them (evokes jealousy & bitterness) and so everyone is encouraged to embellish their struggles just a little, which in turn means everyone else has to embellish just a bit more so their actually-perfectly-ordinary experience doesn't sound too comparatively cushy.
abetterday 8y ago
But it's the same thing in the other direction. Countless people claim that they've done their best and were just unlucky - or even that no one could have succeeded in their particular situation. Yet, I often encounter people not making efforts/decisions/sacrifices I consider basic. And they also discount all the help and good fortune they are getting. Strictly speaking, both "I got no help" and "I've done my best" are hyperbole, delusion, or lies. Both are tiring and frustrating. They are also a fairly natural, though crude, way to direct a conversation: "I think you are making excuses" and "I think you are underestimating the challenges".
losvedir 8y ago
I don't understand - you think it never happens? Or rarely does? I classify my family in that "rags to moderate riches" story, at least gradually over a couple generations. I'd say it's more common than not that people with money today did come from families without it a couple generations ago.

beefield 8y ago

There is funny (or would be funny if it was not so serious in the societal concequences) research by Paul Piff on this phenomenom: https://planetsave.com/2013/12/23/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-reveals-how-feeling-wealthy-changes-our-behavior-ted-video/ https://planetsave.com/2013/12/23/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-...

screye 8y ago

> "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" (by the way, isn't that meant to be an ironic paradox?). Cracks me up every time. It most certainly is. The few people who I know have "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps" in the proverbial sense, almost never use such dismissive terminology.

lordnacho 8y ago

I concur. What irks me the most is when the backstory contains unmentioned unethical elements. I come across several people in business who all gave the "oh it was so hard in the beginning" while not mentioning their dark pattern websites (people unwittingly buying subscription), wolf-of-wall-street v1 of their broking business, or outright money laundering. There needs to be a catchy phrase for the "I had it so hard" story.

timdavila 8y ago
"Uphill both ways"
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
4 Yorkshiremen (from the Monty Python sketch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

axaxs 8y ago

That, along with "my teachers always said i wouldn't amount to anything." Seriously, I've been in some -rough- public schools with literal criminals, and never once heard a teacher come close to saying something like that.

thanksDr 8y ago
On the last day of 6th grade public school, my teacher pulled me aside in his very final moment of power over me to say exactly this. He made it quite longwinded. This wasn't a rough school - I was in a suburban gifted program.
- nitrogen 8y ago
  It must be the middle of the road suburban public schools with gifted programs where this is a thing, because I (indirectly) heard the same thing at high school.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    Lower-ghetto public school with a half functioning kitchen, got called "ugly" and told to sit outside by my 5th grade art teacher. She continued working there for 6 more years before taking on a Director-role at the local community college, interestingly. Joke was on her though, because my mother thinks I'm quite handsome heh. /adds his card neatly to the anecdote pile
chasd00 8y ago
heh my friend had a HS teacher that stapled taco bell job applications to every F grade. that's pretty harsh.

eanzenberg 8y ago

There's no such thing as an adult emerging from the woods having learned everything themselves. Because of this, it's a major fallacy to expect it from people who have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" because you will find something about their background that refutes it. Let's say, some people are more privileged than others.

ip26 8y ago

Could just be as simple as nobody wants to sound like their success was handed to them (evokes jealousy & bitterness) and so everyone is encouraged to embellish their struggles just a little, which in turn means everyone else has to embellish just a bit more so their actually-perfectly-ordinary experience doesn't sound too comparatively cushy.

abetterday 8y ago

But it's the same thing in the other direction. Countless people claim that they've done their best and were just unlucky - or even that no one could have succeeded in their particular situation. Yet, I often encounter people not making efforts/decisions/sacrifices I consider basic. And they also discount all the help and good fortune they are getting. Strictly speaking, both "I got no help" and "I've done my best" are hyperbole, delusion, or lies. Both are tiring and frustrating. They are also a fairly natural, though crude, way to direct a conversation: "I think you are making excuses" and "I think you are underestimating the challenges".

losvedir 8y ago

I don't understand - you think it never happens? Or rarely does? I classify my family in that "rags to moderate riches" story, at least gradually over a couple generations. I'd say it's more common than not that people with money today did come from families without it a couple generations ago.