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What the article doesnt mention is college debt. I know tons of people who have college debt for degrees that pay absolutely nothing. Its debt they will never

What the article doesnt mention is college debt. I know tons of people who have college debt for degrees that pay absolutely nothing. Its debt they will never escape, and im guessing mom and dad feel guilty about it to some extent. I came from a poor family, so college wasnt much of an option. My mom and dad had lived their whole lives under check cashing shysters and credit card debt until dad hurt his back and went on disability/heroin. Mom did the best she could at the local truckstop diner where i spent most of my time after school. College was never an option and looking back im glad it wasnt. I grew up to become a damn good diesel engine tech. not the best, but i walk out of the shop every day feeling like I actually did something meaningful. Some days im even making cut-rate lawyer money. but I see college kids at my local bar, partly because thats an aesthetic for college kids my age, but also because its a necessity. They buy a round of el-cheapo beers and sit in the corner on their phones for an hour. They rarely tip or if they do its some weird math that comes out to screw over the barman, but its hardly their fault. I bought a Sam Adams for one of these guys who was fired from mcdonalds for showing up to work late just once. He had a masters degree in business management. He came home to see his prius getting repossessed, and decided to just decided to keep on walking past his apartment and down to the local watering hole. His plan was to ride out an eviction and move back in with his folks.

lanewinfield 8y ago
They definitely mention it! "Those who do not have parental assistance in their 30s, however, continue to be at a disadvantage. “They are grappling with paying off student-loan debt, their savings might not be as strong because of that, and many are taking care of other family members,” said Iimay Ho, 32, the executive director at Resource Generation, an organization that works with people ages 18 to 35 with wealth or class privilege to engage on issues of inequality." ... "For those without parental cash at the ready, there’s often some kind of debt hangover that holds them back in significant ways. Roger Quesada, 34, calls his $65,000 of student-loan debt to Sallie Mae, which incurs $400 a month in interest payments alone, “a jail sentence.” A lapse in his payments ruined his credit, he said, and has hampered his financial and career aspirations." And I feel for it, too. Compounding debt instead of compounding interest. Reminds me of a very relevant Onion headline: "Lazy Poor Person Has Never Earned Passive Income From Stock Dividends A Day In His Life" https://local.theonion.com/lazy-poor-person-has-never-earned-passive-income-from-s-1832537497 https://local.theonion.com/lazy-poor-person-has-never-earned...
- hopler 8y ago
  > savings might not be as strong because of that, Is incredibly tone deaf way to describe people living paycheck to paycheck.
  - yathern 8y ago
    Paying off loans doesn't also mean you are also living paycheck-to-paycheck. Even if so, this article is well researched and has sparked good discussion - accusing the author of being tone deaf, with no other contribution or criticism is not very nice.
  - pdabbadabba 8y ago
    That seems like a non sequiter. Plenty of people are still paying off student loan debt but hardly living paycheck to paycheck, myself included. The article, by contrast, has it exactly right. I, for example, have a savings "maximum" that I've identified (for savings other than the ones with significant tax advantages, like IRA contributions), such that whenever I exceed it, that surplus goes towards more quickly paying off student loan debt. So, indeed, while I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, my savings also are not as strong as they would otherwise be.
- debttmp789 8y ago
  This is pretty spot-on for me at the moment. Low-mid 30's and I sort of have a "choice" to borrow from my parents to get me by (which would actually be saddling them with more debt - however they are FAR better equipped to deal with it). I'm taking a good hard look at declaring bankruptcy this week as an attempt to break out. It would be less heartbreaking than continuing the feelings of fealty.
  - ttul 8y ago
    I wonder if going bankrupt now (prior to a recession) is a good strategy because it means you will emerge from it sooner than the bulge of others who become bankrupt after the recession. Serious point...
52-6F-62 8y ago
An aside question— As a high level guess it sounds like you probably didn't grow up in or too near a major city (if truck stops are in play). Are you still working where you're from? How did you come to find HN? I know there's a large number of mechanics on here, and it makes complete sense. But I'm curious how all these roads meet, sometimes.
camgunz 8y ago
This lateness thing doesn't get enough play. At a salaried level, people are just late all the time, late to work, late to meetings, working from home, leaving early, whatever. If you try any of that on an hourly gig, you get fired immediately (or worse, you're in some byzantine PIP system). Being late doesn't mean you're lazy, it means you forgot your phone or forgot to water your plants. It matters in almost no jobs. We need to come off it a little.
- ed312 8y ago
  Part of that is from an oversupply of no (or very low) skilled labor. When people are desperate for "jobs" you can afford to be extremely strict and remorseless as an employer. I think this why past generations promoted things like unions and various workers' rights so strongly.
  - asdff 8y ago
    I think the bigger part is the type of jobs. In a career job, you work on your projects at whatever rate you work, so if you come in a little late it only really bites your free time. If you came in late at a restaurant or hospital, they'd be short staffed and screwed.
- Allower 8y ago
  At salaried level people aren't doing things that have hard time constraints. when you are delivering pizzas or working as a cashier your punctuality matters a hell of a lot more, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out, which is why if you fuck up once you're fired, it was literally the one thing they told you not to fuck up. Of course there are extenuating circumstances, and managers should be more relaxed with people who make an effort (e.g. texting ahead that they are running x minutes late). But the vast majority of cases are not like this. Its people making stupid choices and suffering the consequences, I don't have much sympathy for that.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    not sure what you're getting downvoted for. when you work in something like retail or food service it matters a lot if you're late. customers are either taking their money elsewhere or your already tired coworkers from the first shift are staying late to cover for you.

lanewinfield 8y ago

They definitely mention it! "Those who do not have parental assistance in their 30s, however, continue to be at a disadvantage. “They are grappling with paying off student-loan debt, their savings might not be as strong because of that, and many are taking care of other family members,” said Iimay Ho, 32, the executive director at Resource Generation, an organization that works with people ages 18 to 35 with wealth or class privilege to engage on issues of inequality." ... "For those without parental cash at the ready, there’s often some kind of debt hangover that holds them back in significant ways. Roger Quesada, 34, calls his $65,000 of student-loan debt to Sallie Mae, which incurs $400 a month in interest payments alone, “a jail sentence.” A lapse in his payments ruined his credit, he said, and has hampered his financial and career aspirations." And I feel for it, too. Compounding debt instead of compounding interest. Reminds me of a very relevant Onion headline: "Lazy Poor Person Has Never Earned Passive Income From Stock Dividends A Day In His Life" https://local.theonion.com/lazy-poor-person-has-never-earned-passive-income-from-s-1832537497 https://local.theonion.com/lazy-poor-person-has-never-earned...

hopler 8y ago
> savings might not be as strong because of that, Is incredibly tone deaf way to describe people living paycheck to paycheck.
- yathern 8y ago
  Paying off loans doesn't also mean you are also living paycheck-to-paycheck. Even if so, this article is well researched and has sparked good discussion - accusing the author of being tone deaf, with no other contribution or criticism is not very nice.
- pdabbadabba 8y ago
  That seems like a non sequiter. Plenty of people are still paying off student loan debt but hardly living paycheck to paycheck, myself included. The article, by contrast, has it exactly right. I, for example, have a savings "maximum" that I've identified (for savings other than the ones with significant tax advantages, like IRA contributions), such that whenever I exceed it, that surplus goes towards more quickly paying off student loan debt. So, indeed, while I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, my savings also are not as strong as they would otherwise be.
debttmp789 8y ago
This is pretty spot-on for me at the moment. Low-mid 30's and I sort of have a "choice" to borrow from my parents to get me by (which would actually be saddling them with more debt - however they are FAR better equipped to deal with it). I'm taking a good hard look at declaring bankruptcy this week as an attempt to break out. It would be less heartbreaking than continuing the feelings of fealty.
- ttul 8y ago
  I wonder if going bankrupt now (prior to a recession) is a good strategy because it means you will emerge from it sooner than the bulge of others who become bankrupt after the recession. Serious point...

52-6F-62 8y ago

An aside question— As a high level guess it sounds like you probably didn't grow up in or too near a major city (if truck stops are in play). Are you still working where you're from? How did you come to find HN? I know there's a large number of mechanics on here, and it makes complete sense. But I'm curious how all these roads meet, sometimes.

camgunz 8y ago

This lateness thing doesn't get enough play. At a salaried level, people are just late all the time, late to work, late to meetings, working from home, leaving early, whatever. If you try any of that on an hourly gig, you get fired immediately (or worse, you're in some byzantine PIP system). Being late doesn't mean you're lazy, it means you forgot your phone or forgot to water your plants. It matters in almost no jobs. We need to come off it a little.

ed312 8y ago
Part of that is from an oversupply of no (or very low) skilled labor. When people are desperate for "jobs" you can afford to be extremely strict and remorseless as an employer. I think this why past generations promoted things like unions and various workers' rights so strongly.
- asdff 8y ago
  I think the bigger part is the type of jobs. In a career job, you work on your projects at whatever rate you work, so if you come in a little late it only really bites your free time. If you came in late at a restaurant or hospital, they'd be short staffed and screwed.
Allower 8y ago
At salaried level people aren't doing things that have hard time constraints. when you are delivering pizzas or working as a cashier your punctuality matters a hell of a lot more, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out, which is why if you fuck up once you're fired, it was literally the one thing they told you not to fuck up. Of course there are extenuating circumstances, and managers should be more relaxed with people who make an effort (e.g. texting ahead that they are running x minutes late). But the vast majority of cases are not like this. Its people making stupid choices and suffering the consequences, I don't have much sympathy for that.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  not sure what you're getting downvoted for. when you work in something like retail or food service it matters a lot if you're late. customers are either taking their money elsewhere or your already tired coworkers from the first shift are staying late to cover for you.