9 ms·

There are also a non negligible number of people using an alias on facebook because they have good reason. Apparently when a woman uses a pseudonym on facebook

There are also a non negligible number of people using an alias on facebook because they have good reason. Apparently when a woman uses a pseudonym on facebook, it is not unlikely that it is because of a nasty/stalkerish ex that she would rather get away from. I am actually in favor of a transparent society (a la david brin) , but we have to grown up a lot and handle such cases before the advantages that come with it can even be contemplated.

bfred_it 8y ago
We had a million years to grow up, I don't think we'll ever get there (without drastic measures a la 1984, if you wish)
- derefr 8y ago
  We haven’t started doing any serious genetic engineering (or maybe, depending on timeline, the equivalent for minds uploaded into computers) yet. Once we do, we could do a lot of “growing up” very quickly.
  - touristtam 8y ago
    It isn't physical "growing up" that we, as a species, need to do. This is the way the whole society act. If you look at politics and corporate world, it feels like a bunch of pre schooler throwing tantrum. As a society we are not acting responsibly. You could argue that the worse are countries that still argue to go to war with their neighbors on the pretends the later are different, but the rest allowing to destroy the planet while keeping the rest of the society under control, preventing us, as a species, to achieve goals that are dreamed by the most creative of us. And it is depressingly easy to keep the status quo. The "Growing up" reminded me of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ja-mHeYAKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ja-mHeYAKM
    - derefr 8y ago
      The point I wanted to make here is mostly this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo... IMHO, it doesn’t make sense to blame “society” for being pre schoolers, any more than it makes sense to blame individual humans for becoming mentally ill. Both are just failure modes of our mental hardware (our tribal-status instincts in the societal case.) The only solution to either that would “stick”—what I would interpret “growing up” to mean—is to remake ourselves without those failure modes. Anything less might help individual humans who get some sort of maintenance treatment for their failure modes; but our society as a whole will still be a function of interactions between both people who have treated those failure modes in themselves, and those who have not yet (because e.g. they aren’t aware yet that they have a problem; or don’t see it as a problem; etc.)
      - touristtam 8y ago
        Thank you for the link. I agree with what the author is saying, mostly. :) Mind that when I mentioned society as a whole, this is inclusive to its individual parts: There is no society without individuals and as such any judgment on a society is a judgement on its parts. That being said, I know it is a naive view, as no one can condemn a society completely. As for the bio engineering to try and weed out the "bad wiring", I am not even sure we are close to identify them clearly, as seems to indicate the science articles about the brain and other nervous system in recent years.
arcturus17 8y ago
> in favor of a transparent society I suggest you read The Transparent Society by Byung-Chul Han. It’s a brutal 50-page indictment of the hypercult of transparency and its effects on the human soul, on the political discourse, and on traditional values like truth and beauty. Might change your view on the costs of transparency.
- no_identd 8y ago
  The Hypercult of Transparency[nice choice of words!] exists because people keep falling for the Transparency=Accountability meme. And until the rather recent advent of homeomorphic encryption, that meme did have some rather humongous amounts of truth to it. However, given the existence of homeomorphic encryption, this no longer rings true. Speaking of homeomorphic encryption and Facebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19288633 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19288633
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    Whats the connection between discussions about "the cult of transparency" and homeomorphic encryption?
    - Natanael_L 8y ago
      Presumably that accountability could be achieved despite secrecy, through code. Also see Zero-knowledge proofs
      - no_identd 8y ago
        Yepp.
- stareatgoats 8y ago
  There is a thoughtful counterargument to Han here: https://mesocosm.net/2013/10/01/digital-humanism/ https://mesocosm.net/2013/10/01/digital-humanism/ IMO it doesn't sufficiently deal with the problems of the "full transparancy" ideal that Han points out though.
zdragnar 8y ago
While I appreciate the premise and good intent, the transparent society sounds like an idealized Girardian nightmare to me.
Already__Taken 8y ago
see also: Any employee in the education sector would have good reason.
- usrusr 8y ago
  I wonder how long it takes until the whole teaching profession just collectively decides to adopt professional pseudonyms. Would make "child at same school"-situations even more awkward I guess.
  - gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
    The issue would be safeguarding.
    - Already__Taken 8y ago
      There's no problem what name the school has you on the books for. There's no reason what they have on file/police checks is the same name presented on office doors, emails and to parents. We do this all the time for students that can't/won't use their legal names in school for a number of reasons.
      - gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
        I guess it is just a matter of getting the right systems in place to manage the administrative overhead. There are quite a few lines of work where this might not be a bad idea. E.g. also Police and government employees in general.
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    My mother was my french teacher at school three times. At home she was "mom" and in class she was "madame". It was not complicated. That being said I did once call my male first grade teacher "mom" so maybe I'm not a good example
gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
> Apparently when a woman uses a pseudonym on facebook, it is not unlikely that it is because of a nasty/stalkerish ex that she would rather get away from. Also men do this...
- renholder 8y ago
  >Also men do this... True story. A stalker found my blog via my Instagram account and commented some far-out there shit on it, inferring a conversation that we never even had, "Told you that you weren't dead." WTF!? Now, it's pseudonyms, pseudonyms everywhere; except, of course, where it serves a necessity to have your actual name being used, such as on LinkedIn, but even those will be discarded, as soon as it's no longer necessary. (Necessity, here, meaning seeking gainful employment.)

bfred_it 8y ago

We had a million years to grow up, I don't think we'll ever get there (without drastic measures a la 1984, if you wish)

derefr 8y ago
We haven’t started doing any serious genetic engineering (or maybe, depending on timeline, the equivalent for minds uploaded into computers) yet. Once we do, we could do a lot of “growing up” very quickly.
- touristtam 8y ago
  It isn't physical "growing up" that we, as a species, need to do. This is the way the whole society act. If you look at politics and corporate world, it feels like a bunch of pre schooler throwing tantrum. As a society we are not acting responsibly. You could argue that the worse are countries that still argue to go to war with their neighbors on the pretends the later are different, but the rest allowing to destroy the planet while keeping the rest of the society under control, preventing us, as a species, to achieve goals that are dreamed by the most creative of us. And it is depressingly easy to keep the status quo. The "Growing up" reminded me of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ja-mHeYAKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ja-mHeYAKM
  - derefr 8y ago
    The point I wanted to make here is mostly this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo... IMHO, it doesn’t make sense to blame “society” for being pre schoolers, any more than it makes sense to blame individual humans for becoming mentally ill. Both are just failure modes of our mental hardware (our tribal-status instincts in the societal case.) The only solution to either that would “stick”—what I would interpret “growing up” to mean—is to remake ourselves without those failure modes. Anything less might help individual humans who get some sort of maintenance treatment for their failure modes; but our society as a whole will still be a function of interactions between both people who have treated those failure modes in themselves, and those who have not yet (because e.g. they aren’t aware yet that they have a problem; or don’t see it as a problem; etc.)
    - touristtam 8y ago
      Thank you for the link. I agree with what the author is saying, mostly. :) Mind that when I mentioned society as a whole, this is inclusive to its individual parts: There is no society without individuals and as such any judgment on a society is a judgement on its parts. That being said, I know it is a naive view, as no one can condemn a society completely. As for the bio engineering to try and weed out the "bad wiring", I am not even sure we are close to identify them clearly, as seems to indicate the science articles about the brain and other nervous system in recent years.

arcturus17 8y ago

> in favor of a transparent society I suggest you read The Transparent Society by Byung-Chul Han. It’s a brutal 50-page indictment of the hypercult of transparency and its effects on the human soul, on the political discourse, and on traditional values like truth and beauty. Might change your view on the costs of transparency.

no_identd 8y ago
The Hypercult of Transparency[nice choice of words!] exists because people keep falling for the Transparency=Accountability meme. And until the rather recent advent of homeomorphic encryption, that meme did have some rather humongous amounts of truth to it. However, given the existence of homeomorphic encryption, this no longer rings true. Speaking of homeomorphic encryption and Facebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19288633 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19288633
- bogomipz 8y ago
  Whats the connection between discussions about "the cult of transparency" and homeomorphic encryption?
  - Natanael_L 8y ago
    Presumably that accountability could be achieved despite secrecy, through code. Also see Zero-knowledge proofs
    - no_identd 8y ago
      Yepp.
stareatgoats 8y ago
There is a thoughtful counterargument to Han here: https://mesocosm.net/2013/10/01/digital-humanism/ https://mesocosm.net/2013/10/01/digital-humanism/ IMO it doesn't sufficiently deal with the problems of the "full transparancy" ideal that Han points out though.

zdragnar 8y ago

While I appreciate the premise and good intent, the transparent society sounds like an idealized Girardian nightmare to me.

Already__Taken 8y ago

see also: Any employee in the education sector would have good reason.

usrusr 8y ago
I wonder how long it takes until the whole teaching profession just collectively decides to adopt professional pseudonyms. Would make "child at same school"-situations even more awkward I guess.
- gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
  The issue would be safeguarding.
  - Already__Taken 8y ago
    There's no problem what name the school has you on the books for. There's no reason what they have on file/police checks is the same name presented on office doors, emails and to parents. We do this all the time for students that can't/won't use their legal names in school for a number of reasons.
    - gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
      I guess it is just a matter of getting the right systems in place to manage the administrative overhead. There are quite a few lines of work where this might not be a bad idea. E.g. also Police and government employees in general.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  My mother was my french teacher at school three times. At home she was "mom" and in class she was "madame". It was not complicated. That being said I did once call my male first grade teacher "mom" so maybe I'm not a good example

gdfasfklshg4 8y ago

> Apparently when a woman uses a pseudonym on facebook, it is not unlikely that it is because of a nasty/stalkerish ex that she would rather get away from. Also men do this...

renholder 8y ago
>Also men do this... True story. A stalker found my blog via my Instagram account and commented some far-out there shit on it, inferring a conversation that we never even had, "Told you that you weren't dead." WTF!? Now, it's pseudonyms, pseudonyms everywhere; except, of course, where it serves a necessity to have your actual name being used, such as on LinkedIn, but even those will be discarded, as soon as it's no longer necessary. (Necessity, here, meaning seeking gainful employment.)