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Really buried the lede here. I get that it was acknowledged as a rant / opinion piece but there's not a lot of really actionable advice for the general populati

Really buried the lede here. I get that it was acknowledged as a rant / opinion piece but there's not a lot of really actionable advice for the general population of programmers, IMO. The article has good points, for sure, but the ending has the best part, IMO. > So here’s the punchline: if you want to be a good programmer then learn a technology and language agnostic formalism. Logic, statistics, and game theory are probably good bets. As things stand that kind of skill is probably the only thing that is going to survive the coming automation apocalypse because so far no one has figured out a way around rigorous and heuristic thinking. I think there's a lot of support there. I don't think using Kubernetes as an example of "sequestering the complexity behind a distributed control system" was a good follow up to TDD generating more lines of code. Containers are a step in the right direction and Kubernetes _is not_ the best option for using containers in production but it _is_ the most popular option and so if you want community mindshare and support then it probably is the best choice if you can manage it or use a managed service. "Serverless" is real, it's here, and containers / k8s are just a step along the way.

eikenberry 8y ago
I agree that Kubernetes is not the best technology out there, but I'm not 100% on which I would call the best. Did you have a winner in mind (it sounded like it)? If so why that one? Also it may not really matter as you said Kubernetes is the most popular and is only getting more so at this point and the network affect is so strong in tech like this that the "technically best" most likely will become a moot point.
- leetrout 8y ago
  I am a big fan of Nomad's scheduler and the code is easy to pull in to an existing Go project. It doesn't have everything Kubernetes has but I don't think it needs it, either. Kubernetes has for sure won the popularity contest but the overhead involved in running it The Right Way™ on your own is a lot. Given what I've seen I would advocate for OpenShift if you like RedHat products / projects or sticking with Kubernetes from one of the well-known cloud providers.
  - pytester 8y ago
    I have a sneaking suspicion that Kubernetes is another Ruby on Rails waiting to happen: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=ruby%20on%20rails https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=r...
    - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
      Good for me, I must made about 500,000 from moving Rails to other more modern stacks... I'll learn Kubernetes just as it dies off and start moving people's shit to whatever's next.
      - james_s_tayler 8y ago
        That has to be one of the best strategies out there. So long as you just read the trends right.
        WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
        Best of both worlds, I can paid to learn the new tech and the old tech...
      - danmaz74 8y ago
        Out of curiosity, which more modern stacks were those?
        WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
        Most NodeJS with ReactJS frontends. Some of them had already started doing React for frontend and just need the backend work.
        quickthrower2 8y ago
        Smart move. They’ll have to hire you again in 5 years tome for another migration.
asimpletune 8y ago
Off topic, but I’m curious what you think the best container solution is? As an aside, I’ve never been able to get anyone to explain to me why k8 and not something like mesosphere’s DCOS, other than “google”. Anything you can share there?
- eikenberry 8y ago
  I think Mesoshpere/DCOS suffers from the same basic problem that k8ts does... instead of going for the 80% solution, it goes for the 100% solution. That is both systems try to do to much and are overly complex and hard to manage.
avip 8y ago
That's one high-quality rant. The likes of Pretending that the system and the runtime traces of the system are the specification is why there is always a shortage of programmers. That's really insightful. And I think the implied derived actionables are obvious.

eikenberry 8y ago

I agree that Kubernetes is not the best technology out there, but I'm not 100% on which I would call the best. Did you have a winner in mind (it sounded like it)? If so why that one? Also it may not really matter as you said Kubernetes is the most popular and is only getting more so at this point and the network affect is so strong in tech like this that the "technically best" most likely will become a moot point.

leetrout 8y ago
I am a big fan of Nomad's scheduler and the code is easy to pull in to an existing Go project. It doesn't have everything Kubernetes has but I don't think it needs it, either. Kubernetes has for sure won the popularity contest but the overhead involved in running it The Right Way™ on your own is a lot. Given what I've seen I would advocate for OpenShift if you like RedHat products / projects or sticking with Kubernetes from one of the well-known cloud providers.
- pytester 8y ago
  I have a sneaking suspicion that Kubernetes is another Ruby on Rails waiting to happen: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=ruby%20on%20rails https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=r...
  - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
    Good for me, I must made about 500,000 from moving Rails to other more modern stacks... I'll learn Kubernetes just as it dies off and start moving people's shit to whatever's next.
    - james_s_tayler 8y ago
      That has to be one of the best strategies out there. So long as you just read the trends right.
      - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
        Best of both worlds, I can paid to learn the new tech and the old tech...
    - danmaz74 8y ago
      Out of curiosity, which more modern stacks were those?
      - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
        Most NodeJS with ReactJS frontends. Some of them had already started doing React for frontend and just need the backend work.
        quickthrower2 8y ago
        Smart move. They’ll have to hire you again in 5 years tome for another migration.

asimpletune 8y ago

Off topic, but I’m curious what you think the best container solution is? As an aside, I’ve never been able to get anyone to explain to me why k8 and not something like mesosphere’s DCOS, other than “google”. Anything you can share there?

eikenberry 8y ago
I think Mesoshpere/DCOS suffers from the same basic problem that k8ts does... instead of going for the 80% solution, it goes for the 100% solution. That is both systems try to do to much and are overly complex and hard to manage.

avip 8y ago

That's one high-quality rant. The likes of Pretending that the system and the runtime traces of the system are the specification is why there is always a shortage of programmers. That's really insightful. And I think the implied derived actionables are obvious.