4 ms·
>It is well documented that, after Von Neumann learned of his terminal pancreatic cancer, he became horrified of death and would cry out at night, even resortin
by oarabbus_ 8y ago
>It is well documented that, after Von Neumann learned of his terminal pancreatic cancer, he became horrified of death and would cry out at night, even resorting to last-minute conversations with a priest on his deathbed (though he was an atheist throughout his life).
Oh man this is utterly terrifying for me as I always hoped that the fear of death would diminish with age. It's horribly terrifying to me that he was horribly terrified of death at an advanced age.
- theaeolist 8y agoHe died at 54.
- HNLurker2 8y agoSo what? His death was the saddest thing that could happen to a brilliant man. I only dream what would have been if he lived same age as Bertrand Russell (97). Both are incredible minds.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- noblethrasher 8y agoI'm pretty sure 'theaeolist meant that, since von Neumann died young (53 actually), that he never had the chance to even reach an "advanced age" where you might expect the fear of death to have lessened.
- wolfhumble 8y agoIf you have no hope after death, I wonder why one might argue that a 97 year old person would have less fear than a 53 year old. If you fear death to begin with, I would assume the increased probability of dying by the year would increase the fear. I have hope after death and don't fear it, but the consequence of death is still more present in my mind than it was 10 years ago . . .
- mcv 8y agoI don't think the issue really is a fear of death, but a fear of dying before you've been able to do what you wanted to do with your life. At 97, most people have probably long accepted that they're well past their peak, they've accomplished everything they're going to accomplish and even if they continue to live for another 10 years, they're unlikely to add anything dramatic to it. Their life is pretty much complete. Von Neumann at 53, despite the many things he had accomplished already, probably had tons more he wanted to do. His life was not remotely complete.
- TaupeRanger 8y agoDepends on the person of course. Teenagers can die with less fear than 90 year olds. It is often seen as "ignoble" (to quote Bertrand Russell) for an older person to fear death. But it's a universal experience, so spending a little time during life trying to prepare for your end (especially while you're healthy) may be well spent.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- DoctorOetker 8y agooh, this is a classic! A lot of people (especially atheists, like me) have an oversimplified concept of dying. One can be perfectly atheist and realize that apart from the waking horrors of a decaying body, the experience of death itself can still be enormously horrible in certain ways of dying. I highly recommend the movie "A Pure Formality", if you like to trivialize death! It's the worst horror movie I have seen, and there is absolutely zero blood, slashing, nor sudden scare moments... and yet I assure you it is the biggest horror, it is pure psychological horror. I am very happy that I have seen this movie, somehow knowing how horrible something can be sort of mentally prepares you for it...
- mirimir 8y agoIt's not death that I fear, but discomfort and pain.
- TaupeRanger 8y agoThat's like saying "it's not psychopathic axe murderers I fear, but the pain they cause." No one fears words, they fear some aspect of experiential suffering. When people say they "fear death" they mean pain, discomfort, leaving loved ones behind, et. al. I think you hit upon something useful though, which is the idea that our mental wellness can change even when our physical wellness can't.
- mirimir 8y agoMy working hypothesis is that I'm a "meat machine". When I die, it's extremely likely that I (that is, my conscious awareness) will no longer exist. That might also happen, of course, even if much of the meat lives. Given that, I do have some existential dread about death. And that's distinct from the process of dying, the hassle and pain involved, and so on. So I do fear murderers, because they'll kill me. But I fear torturers more, because they cause pain. And more. They do irrevocable stuff, injuries that can never heal. So it's like they can kill you, over and over, little bits at a time. And in a way, those realizations of irrevocable loss are worse than the actual pain.
- 8y ago
- djmips 8y agoIs 54 an advanced age?
- mcv 8y ago53 isn't all that advanced, and certainly in the "too young to die" category for me. To compare it to an example much closer to me, my mother died of pancreatic cancer at 69, about 3 months after diagnosis. The whole family was in shock, but she seemed surprisingly at peace with it. She'd always been worried about her health, but after this diagnosis, she was calmer than I'd ever known her. (I miss her badly, though. I want my youngest son to know her, but he never will.)