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On a smaller scale: A strange one I've noticed only in the last year or so is non-monotonic pricing on fountain soft drinks at places like gas station convenie

On a smaller scale: A strange one I've noticed only in the last year or so is non-monotonic pricing on fountain soft drinks at places like gas station convenience stores. I'm not talking about the marginal ounce, but the total price: they'll have a 16oz cup for $1.29, 22oz for $1.49, and then 32oz for $0.99! The latter is featured with a big yellow sticker on the soda fountain, and maybe an outdoor poster. Of course, all of these are probably an order of magnitude higher than the input costs, but it's (intentionally?) confusing and disorienting. I've got to pay more for less, and more if I want the one that will fit properly in my cupholder.

AgentConundrum 16y ago
It's not so strange when you think about it. My understanding is that soda costs basically nothing to produce (I could be wrong, of course, but part of the benefit of not drinking alcohol much is that lots of bars don't charge me for soda, and refills are often free at restaurants), so it doesn't really doesn't matter what they charge for it. With that in mind, it makes a bit of sense to charge less for more, since people will see the big drink for "little" cost (which still has a massive margin) to be more appealing. They think they're getting a better deal. If the large drink doesn't fit in a standard cupholder, then those people have to pay a premium for the convenience, and the retailer wins again. It's market segmentation, and it works.
- icegreentea 16y ago
  Fountain drinks costs like 5 cents max when you scale large enough (McDonald's level). This is why they can roll out their 'any sized pop for $1' thing during the summer and laugh their way to the bank. And weird, bars usually charge for soda. Soda is usually like the single highest margin item at any establishment. Their so high margin that buffets can give you infinite refills so you eat less, and still make money off their pop.
  - AgentConundrum 16y ago
    It really depends on the bar. If I'm at a pub, or basically any alcohol-based venue that has a proper food menu, then yeah, I'm likely to get charged for every drink. At a "local bar" type of operation, or something like a Royal Canadian Legion branch (I don't know what the American version of this is, but it's basically a bar for ex-service men), then I tend not to get charged. It's a designated driver thing, primarily, but they don't really care if you're actually the DD. Last Saturday, my girlfriends work had their Christmas party, and I ordered two Cokes. Bartender: That'll be $2.50, or are you driving? Me: ...? Bartender: Non-alcoholic drinks are free for designated drivers. Me: I could say I'm driving... Bartender: You could. Me: pays $2.50 For restaurants, it's just like you said, margins are so high that refills are free. That first drink costs less than any single alcoholic beverage, so I save money right away, and every drink thereafter is pure profit (or more accurately, pure non-loss).
    - jimbokun 16y ago
      "(I don't know what the American version of this is, but it's basically a bar for ex-service men)" VFW: Veterans of Foreign Wars. Or Amercian Legion.
      - AgentConundrum 16y ago
        Thanks for the info. I knew they had to exist, but I haven;t so much as stepped foot in the States for over a decade (making me no more than 15 when I was there), so I wasn't familiar with them.
  - mgkimsal 16y ago
    I worked at a Burger King in 1991. We counted our 'food cost' for a medium soda drink at about 8 cents (IIRC large was 10 cents) - that included the cup and an average amount of soda. I'd think that the cost may have gone up a bit over the past 20 years, but probably not too much.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    > And weird, bars usually charge for soda. The key is to say, "I'm driving, I'll have a Coke." I've never been charged.
- brianwillis 16y ago
  >My understanding is that soda costs basically nothing to produce Absolutely true. I can't disclose dollar figures, but McDonald's owes a considerable amount of its profitably to Coca Cola.
mikiem 16y ago
This makes me mad. The gigantic drink at McDonalds doesn't fit in my drink holder... Well, it fits in the hole but its so top-heavy that it falls over before I even get out of the parking lot. I have to pay more to get a sane sized drink, not waste things, be healthier, etc. Lame. Gosh, think how much less mad I would be and how much more money they'd make if the top two sizes were just the same price? I actually avoid McDonalds for this very reason. I know, I am not one of the sheeple that just blindly accept it. For that I pay. sigh
- araneae 16y ago
  You're right, you're definitely not a sheeple. After all, almost no one ever hates on McDonald's on HN.
raquo 16y ago
Tricking people into thinking they are getting a great deal by providing them with inadequate baseline is by far my favorite dark pattern, second only to "does not contain enriched uranium"-kind of labels on food products.
- pierrefar 16y ago
  It's called anchoring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring Basically, you put a stake in the ground and you measure relative to it. Of course, the stake is so wrong for the buyer that anything is really a good deal in relation, but not necessarily in absolute terms.
marquis 16y ago
I don't buy soda nor do I have a car, but could you not buy the large soda, grab a smaller cup (since as far as I know you can just take a cup next to the soda fountain) and win by emptying the soda into the cup that fits? You could either choose to first drink the remainder or spill it outside.
- chc 16y ago
  At most places I know, you pay for full price of the cup even if you opt not to fill it up. It's their way of pre-empting clever scams like this.
DerekL 16y ago
That reminds me of tuna. Usually a larger package of something has a lower unit cost. But often, a 12-oz. can of tuna costs more than two 6-oz. cans of the same brand and type. And it's the normal price, not a sale price.
cubicle67 16y ago
my calculator here tells me that 32 fluid ounces (US) == 0.94l. Surely you don't have cups that hold almost a litre!?
- yardie 16y ago
  Indeed they do. Some are designed that the top 2/3 is as wide as a 2-liter bottle and the bottom 1/3 is the standard size of a cup. Though this works in theory I've rarely met a cupholder that could, in practicality, hold this monster. Generally the cup holders are either right up against the dashboard, shifter, or door. So the cop 2/3 wouldn't fit anyway. Cupholders in the back seat are usually in the center, unobstructed. but you can't sit 2 big gulps next to each other.
- mahmud 16y ago
  Allow me to introduce you to the wonders of the Double Gulp. It's 1.9 liters of your favorite colored sugar juice, or Slurpee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#The_Big_Gulp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#The_Big_Gulp
  - cubicle67 16y ago
    well, um... er... wow. I'm not sure how to respond to that at all.

AgentConundrum 16y ago

It's not so strange when you think about it. My understanding is that soda costs basically nothing to produce (I could be wrong, of course, but part of the benefit of not drinking alcohol much is that lots of bars don't charge me for soda, and refills are often free at restaurants), so it doesn't really doesn't matter what they charge for it. With that in mind, it makes a bit of sense to charge less for more, since people will see the big drink for "little" cost (which still has a massive margin) to be more appealing. They think they're getting a better deal. If the large drink doesn't fit in a standard cupholder, then those people have to pay a premium for the convenience, and the retailer wins again. It's market segmentation, and it works.

icegreentea 16y ago
Fountain drinks costs like 5 cents max when you scale large enough (McDonald's level). This is why they can roll out their 'any sized pop for $1' thing during the summer and laugh their way to the bank. And weird, bars usually charge for soda. Soda is usually like the single highest margin item at any establishment. Their so high margin that buffets can give you infinite refills so you eat less, and still make money off their pop.
- AgentConundrum 16y ago
  It really depends on the bar. If I'm at a pub, or basically any alcohol-based venue that has a proper food menu, then yeah, I'm likely to get charged for every drink. At a "local bar" type of operation, or something like a Royal Canadian Legion branch (I don't know what the American version of this is, but it's basically a bar for ex-service men), then I tend not to get charged. It's a designated driver thing, primarily, but they don't really care if you're actually the DD. Last Saturday, my girlfriends work had their Christmas party, and I ordered two Cokes. Bartender: That'll be $2.50, or are you driving? Me: ...? Bartender: Non-alcoholic drinks are free for designated drivers. Me: I could say I'm driving... Bartender: You could. Me: pays $2.50 For restaurants, it's just like you said, margins are so high that refills are free. That first drink costs less than any single alcoholic beverage, so I save money right away, and every drink thereafter is pure profit (or more accurately, pure non-loss).
  - jimbokun 16y ago
    "(I don't know what the American version of this is, but it's basically a bar for ex-service men)" VFW: Veterans of Foreign Wars. Or Amercian Legion.
    - AgentConundrum 16y ago
      Thanks for the info. I knew they had to exist, but I haven;t so much as stepped foot in the States for over a decade (making me no more than 15 when I was there), so I wasn't familiar with them.
- mgkimsal 16y ago
  I worked at a Burger King in 1991. We counted our 'food cost' for a medium soda drink at about 8 cents (IIRC large was 10 cents) - that included the cup and an average amount of soda. I'd think that the cost may have gone up a bit over the past 20 years, but probably not too much.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  > And weird, bars usually charge for soda. The key is to say, "I'm driving, I'll have a Coke." I've never been charged.
brianwillis 16y ago
>My understanding is that soda costs basically nothing to produce Absolutely true. I can't disclose dollar figures, but McDonald's owes a considerable amount of its profitably to Coca Cola.

mikiem 16y ago

This makes me mad. The gigantic drink at McDonalds doesn't fit in my drink holder... Well, it fits in the hole but its so top-heavy that it falls over before I even get out of the parking lot. I have to pay more to get a sane sized drink, not waste things, be healthier, etc. Lame. Gosh, think how much less mad I would be and how much more money they'd make if the top two sizes were just the same price? I actually avoid McDonalds for this very reason. I know, I am not one of the sheeple that just blindly accept it. For that I pay. sigh

araneae 16y ago
You're right, you're definitely not a sheeple. After all, almost no one ever hates on McDonald's on HN.

raquo 16y ago

Tricking people into thinking they are getting a great deal by providing them with inadequate baseline is by far my favorite dark pattern, second only to "does not contain enriched uranium"-kind of labels on food products.

pierrefar 16y ago
It's called anchoring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring Basically, you put a stake in the ground and you measure relative to it. Of course, the stake is so wrong for the buyer that anything is really a good deal in relation, but not necessarily in absolute terms.

marquis 16y ago

I don't buy soda nor do I have a car, but could you not buy the large soda, grab a smaller cup (since as far as I know you can just take a cup next to the soda fountain) and win by emptying the soda into the cup that fits? You could either choose to first drink the remainder or spill it outside.

chc 16y ago
At most places I know, you pay for full price of the cup even if you opt not to fill it up. It's their way of pre-empting clever scams like this.

DerekL 16y ago

That reminds me of tuna. Usually a larger package of something has a lower unit cost. But often, a 12-oz. can of tuna costs more than two 6-oz. cans of the same brand and type. And it's the normal price, not a sale price.

cubicle67 16y ago

my calculator here tells me that 32 fluid ounces (US) == 0.94l. Surely you don't have cups that hold almost a litre!?

yardie 16y ago
Indeed they do. Some are designed that the top 2/3 is as wide as a 2-liter bottle and the bottom 1/3 is the standard size of a cup. Though this works in theory I've rarely met a cupholder that could, in practicality, hold this monster. Generally the cup holders are either right up against the dashboard, shifter, or door. So the cop 2/3 wouldn't fit anyway. Cupholders in the back seat are usually in the center, unobstructed. but you can't sit 2 big gulps next to each other.
mahmud 16y ago
Allow me to introduce you to the wonders of the Double Gulp. It's 1.9 liters of your favorite colored sugar juice, or Slurpee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#The_Big_Gulp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#The_Big_Gulp
- cubicle67 16y ago
  well, um... er... wow. I'm not sure how to respond to that at all.