4 ms·

It's also probably not related to the 1984 movie "Gremlins" or the 1970's car of the same name (listed as one of the ugliest cars of all time[0]) [0] https://w

by yodon 8y ago

It's also probably not related to the 1984 movie "Gremlins" or the 1970's car of the same name (listed as one of the ugliest cars of all time[0]) [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/worlds-15-ugliest-cars/7/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/worlds-15-ugliest-cars/7/

espeed 8y ago
ASF marks were filed at formation. Identifying and distinguishing the use of similar and potentially confusing marks (esp in software products) is one of the required duties. The use of ASF marks in software products is prohibited to prevent confusion.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- yodon 8y ago
  TinkerPop is a graph database. This is an infrastructure testing system. The likelihood of confusion between those two use cases is comparable to the likelihood of confusion with a movie or a car. You have a trademark, that's awesome. Even McDonalds trademark, which is one of the broadest, is scoped.
  - espeed 8y ago
    I was confused when I first saw the project, cartoon logo and "Gremlin Free" name, and I'm intimately familiar with both the Apache TinkerPop Gremlin open-source project, its third-party libraries, and the extensive ASF legal process we went through registering and identifying the use of marks. Read up on your trademark, IP and copyright law. The use of similar marks is not permitted when there is potential for confusion, such as two different software projects, esp with overlapping audiences. NB: TinkerPop is NOT a "graph database", it is a collection of software libraries for connecting to, using, and managing graph databases and distributed processing platforms. Gremlin is a primary part of that stack -- Gremlin proper is the programming language, and the Gremlin GTM is the runtime.
    - yodon 8y ago
      It doesn't sound like you were confused about whether they were the same project, it sounds like you were immediately concerned whether the other endeavor was in conflict with your trademark. That may constitute confusion but it's not the sort of confusion trademarks were designed to mitigate.
      - lklig 8y ago
        We did register the Gremlin trademark early on to be sure we had all of our bases covered: https://trademarks.justia.com/871/94/gremlin-87194877.html https://trademarks.justia.com/871/94/gremlin-87194877.html
        espeed 8y ago
        So you begin by imitating Google's old logofont, and then you switch to something resembling Google's new logofont [1]. And for a company name, you decide to use the name of an established programming language and registered mark of a top-level Apache project [2], which has been in use since its inception over a decade ago, and incidentally it's a project and programming language that both your previous employers know well [3]. That's some inspired work, overflowing with creative originality. And to top if off, you have animated graphs floating in the background. Yeah, no possibility for confusion there. There's a name for that you know? Google it and see if you can find the word -- its definition has to do with siphoning goodwill. Who advised you on this and agreed these were wise choices and that this would be a good way to begin? [1] https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo_for_google_done_in_house.php https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_log... [2] https://tinkerpop.apache.org/ https://tinkerpop.apache.org/ [3] https://www.gremlin.com/team/ https://www.gremlin.com/team/
      - espeed 8y ago
        No, there are ~70 or more third-party projects building on the Apache TinkerPop Gremlin platform, and new ones are popping up all the time. My first thought was this is likely a new project site for a Gremlin client library or service provider that was still using placeholder images for branding [1]. When a new third-party project site goes online, SOP is to review the new site/code, understand what it is and how it fits into the overall ecosystem, and then put their project lead in touch with TinkerPop's resident artist and illustrator, Ketrina Yim [2], who is available to create custom artwork/logos and Gremlin character illustrations tailored around the new project's theme. However, when I dug into this site's docs to see how it was related, I couldn't find a clear connection. And when I checked with our team, they said Apache Legal has been aware of the issue since last year. [1] Branding https://tinkerpop.apache.org/policy.html https://tinkerpop.apache.org/policy.html [2] Ketrina Yim, Illustrator https://tinkerpop.apache.org/index.html#committers https://tinkerpop.apache.org/index.html#committers

by yodon 8y ago

espeed 8y ago

ASF marks were filed at formation. Identifying and distinguishing the use of similar and potentially confusing marks (esp in software products) is one of the required duties. The use of ASF marks in software products is prohibited to prevent confusion.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
yodon 8y ago
TinkerPop is a graph database. This is an infrastructure testing system. The likelihood of confusion between those two use cases is comparable to the likelihood of confusion with a movie or a car. You have a trademark, that's awesome. Even McDonalds trademark, which is one of the broadest, is scoped.
- espeed 8y ago
  I was confused when I first saw the project, cartoon logo and "Gremlin Free" name, and I'm intimately familiar with both the Apache TinkerPop Gremlin open-source project, its third-party libraries, and the extensive ASF legal process we went through registering and identifying the use of marks. Read up on your trademark, IP and copyright law. The use of similar marks is not permitted when there is potential for confusion, such as two different software projects, esp with overlapping audiences. NB: TinkerPop is NOT a "graph database", it is a collection of software libraries for connecting to, using, and managing graph databases and distributed processing platforms. Gremlin is a primary part of that stack -- Gremlin proper is the programming language, and the Gremlin GTM is the runtime.
  - yodon 8y ago
    It doesn't sound like you were confused about whether they were the same project, it sounds like you were immediately concerned whether the other endeavor was in conflict with your trademark. That may constitute confusion but it's not the sort of confusion trademarks were designed to mitigate.
    - lklig 8y ago
      We did register the Gremlin trademark early on to be sure we had all of our bases covered: https://trademarks.justia.com/871/94/gremlin-87194877.html https://trademarks.justia.com/871/94/gremlin-87194877.html
      - espeed 8y ago
        So you begin by imitating Google's old logofont, and then you switch to something resembling Google's new logofont [1]. And for a company name, you decide to use the name of an established programming language and registered mark of a top-level Apache project [2], which has been in use since its inception over a decade ago, and incidentally it's a project and programming language that both your previous employers know well [3]. That's some inspired work, overflowing with creative originality. And to top if off, you have animated graphs floating in the background. Yeah, no possibility for confusion there. There's a name for that you know? Google it and see if you can find the word -- its definition has to do with siphoning goodwill. Who advised you on this and agreed these were wise choices and that this would be a good way to begin? [1] https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo_for_google_done_in_house.php https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_log... [2] https://tinkerpop.apache.org/ https://tinkerpop.apache.org/ [3] https://www.gremlin.com/team/ https://www.gremlin.com/team/
    - espeed 8y ago
      No, there are ~70 or more third-party projects building on the Apache TinkerPop Gremlin platform, and new ones are popping up all the time. My first thought was this is likely a new project site for a Gremlin client library or service provider that was still using placeholder images for branding [1]. When a new third-party project site goes online, SOP is to review the new site/code, understand what it is and how it fits into the overall ecosystem, and then put their project lead in touch with TinkerPop's resident artist and illustrator, Ketrina Yim [2], who is available to create custom artwork/logos and Gremlin character illustrations tailored around the new project's theme. However, when I dug into this site's docs to see how it was related, I couldn't find a clear connection. And when I checked with our team, they said Apache Legal has been aware of the issue since last year. [1] Branding https://tinkerpop.apache.org/policy.html https://tinkerpop.apache.org/policy.html [2] Ketrina Yim, Illustrator https://tinkerpop.apache.org/index.html#committers https://tinkerpop.apache.org/index.html#committers