5 ms·

How are these costs the fault of the doctors? I would think the largest blame goes to the insurances and drug makers making billions in profit. At least the dru

How are these costs the fault of the doctors? I would think the largest blame goes to the insurances and drug makers making billions in profit. At least the drug makers are making something but the insurances are just pooling money and taking of the top for doing almost nothing.

sergiotapia 8y ago
Insurance costs are insane, but prices for treatment are also ridiculously insane.
crimsonalucard 8y ago
Dude insurance companies compete with one another. IF they could they would offer a service that has no hidden fees and is cheap because it would put them at a competitive advantage. Who wouldn't buy from insurance that offers this. They'd make big money if they can do this. They don't do this because they can't. Insurance isn't the root of the problem they are only a symptom of it. The root of the problem is medical bills. Doctors.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
The unofficial doctors union restricts funding for residency spots, thereby restricting supply of doctors, and keeping their prices high. You can be a doctor in the UK at 24, and in the US, you're at least 30. Insurance companies' profit margins are capped by law, so only reason they would be making more money is if the providers are charging more money.
- nradov 8y ago
  There's nothing stopping the government and individual hospitals from boosting funding for residency spots. The AMA isn't doing anything to prevent it.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I assume there's at least some lobbying going on between healthcare industry and keeping the funding limits in place. https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/gme/71178/gme_gme0012.html https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/gme/71178/gme_gme0012.html I can't think of any other reason Congress would be restricting this if they were really serious about the bringing down the cost of healthcare. Yes, I don't have concrete evidence, but the setup of the situation provides a very nice plausible deniability angle to all parties.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > The unofficial doctors union restricts funding for residency spots No, they don't, unless “unofficial doctors union” is a misleading way of referring to the US Congress (which has way more lawyers than doctors) which funds many of those spots through Medicare (but also some through the VA.) > You can be a doctor in the UK at 24, and in the US, you're at least 30. You can have an MD, having graduated from high school at 18, at 24 in the US with a 6-year BS/MD program. With a 3-year residency (typical for GPs and specialists in internal medicine and a few others), you can be in practice at 27.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I was referring to the Accreditation Council for Graudate Medical Examination being staffed by doctors: https://www.aafp.org/news/education-professional-development/20171004matchanalysis.html https://www.aafp.org/news/education-professional-development... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-arent-enough-doctors https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-a... You don't need to be at least 30, but since most new doctors are that old, I assume there's a reason that's stopping them from becoming doctors earlier, therefore also restricting supply: https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/how-long-does-it-take-to-become-a-doctor/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/how-long-does-it-take-to-... >One of the greatest concerns for students considering a career in medicine is how much additional education is needed—along with the associated time, effort, and medical school debt. The timeline can seem daunting. Four years for medical school, a minimum of three years for residency, and a few more if you want to specialize with a fellowship. Combine that with an average starting age of 24 (or 26 for DO—doctor of osteopathic—applicants), and this means the vast majority of medical students don’t become independent physicians until their early 30s.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > I was referring to the Accreditation Council for Graudate Medical Examination being staffed by doctors They aren't anything like a union and don't control funding for residency slots, so if that's what you were referring to, it doesn't justify your claim. > You don't need to be at least 30, but since most new doctors are that old, I assume there's a reason that's stopping them from becoming doctors earlier Most choose separate undergrad and medical programs (not B.S./M.D. programs), and on average are entering those programs later than four years after a high-school graduation at 18 — mean age for starting med school is 24. [0] But, in any case, you've now shifted to a claim about averages from one about minimuns, and the bulk of the issue you are pointing to occurs before entering medical school, so the fixes would need to be in secondary and undergraduate education; people starting medical education at 24 aren't going to be doctors at 24 (the ideal you contrastes the US to) unless you give them a medical license just for signing up, which is probably not a beneficial reform. [0] https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/2015/04/21/weigh-medical-school-carefully-as-an-older-applicant https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admiss...

sergiotapia 8y ago

Insurance costs are insane, but prices for treatment are also ridiculously insane.

crimsonalucard 8y ago

Dude insurance companies compete with one another. IF they could they would offer a service that has no hidden fees and is cheap because it would put them at a competitive advantage. Who wouldn't buy from insurance that offers this. They'd make big money if they can do this. They don't do this because they can't. Insurance isn't the root of the problem they are only a symptom of it. The root of the problem is medical bills. Doctors.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

The unofficial doctors union restricts funding for residency spots, thereby restricting supply of doctors, and keeping their prices high. You can be a doctor in the UK at 24, and in the US, you're at least 30. Insurance companies' profit margins are capped by law, so only reason they would be making more money is if the providers are charging more money.

nradov 8y ago
There's nothing stopping the government and individual hospitals from boosting funding for residency spots. The AMA isn't doing anything to prevent it.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  I assume there's at least some lobbying going on between healthcare industry and keeping the funding limits in place. https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/gme/71178/gme_gme0012.html https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/gme/71178/gme_gme0012.html I can't think of any other reason Congress would be restricting this if they were really serious about the bringing down the cost of healthcare. Yes, I don't have concrete evidence, but the setup of the situation provides a very nice plausible deniability angle to all parties.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> The unofficial doctors union restricts funding for residency spots No, they don't, unless “unofficial doctors union” is a misleading way of referring to the US Congress (which has way more lawyers than doctors) which funds many of those spots through Medicare (but also some through the VA.) > You can be a doctor in the UK at 24, and in the US, you're at least 30. You can have an MD, having graduated from high school at 18, at 24 in the US with a 6-year BS/MD program. With a 3-year residency (typical for GPs and specialists in internal medicine and a few others), you can be in practice at 27.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  I was referring to the Accreditation Council for Graudate Medical Examination being staffed by doctors: https://www.aafp.org/news/education-professional-development/20171004matchanalysis.html https://www.aafp.org/news/education-professional-development... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-arent-enough-doctors https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-a... You don't need to be at least 30, but since most new doctors are that old, I assume there's a reason that's stopping them from becoming doctors earlier, therefore also restricting supply: https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/how-long-does-it-take-to-become-a-doctor/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/how-long-does-it-take-to-... >One of the greatest concerns for students considering a career in medicine is how much additional education is needed—along with the associated time, effort, and medical school debt. The timeline can seem daunting. Four years for medical school, a minimum of three years for residency, and a few more if you want to specialize with a fellowship. Combine that with an average starting age of 24 (or 26 for DO—doctor of osteopathic—applicants), and this means the vast majority of medical students don’t become independent physicians until their early 30s.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I was referring to the Accreditation Council for Graudate Medical Examination being staffed by doctors They aren't anything like a union and don't control funding for residency slots, so if that's what you were referring to, it doesn't justify your claim. > You don't need to be at least 30, but since most new doctors are that old, I assume there's a reason that's stopping them from becoming doctors earlier Most choose separate undergrad and medical programs (not B.S./M.D. programs), and on average are entering those programs later than four years after a high-school graduation at 18 — mean age for starting med school is 24. [0] But, in any case, you've now shifted to a claim about averages from one about minimuns, and the bulk of the issue you are pointing to occurs before entering medical school, so the fixes would need to be in secondary and undergraduate education; people starting medical education at 24 aren't going to be doctors at 24 (the ideal you contrastes the US to) unless you give them a medical license just for signing up, which is probably not a beneficial reform. [0] https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/2015/04/21/weigh-medical-school-carefully-as-an-older-applicant https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admiss...