5 ms·

The thing is that 'reduce' and 'reuse' are basically anti-consumerist/anti-capitalist, and thus there is formidable opposition to them. Consider a neighbourhoo

The thing is that 'reduce' and 'reuse' are basically anti-consumerist/anti-capitalist, and thus there is formidable opposition to them. Consider a neighbourhood where everyone has a lawn to mow. The lawnmover companies want to increase (not reduce) sales. So we end up with everyone having their own mower, which sits idle 95% of the time, instead of one community mower that's shared by neighbours. It's just a little example, but it extends to everything.

chopin 8y ago
But there's more to it to desire an own mower: 1. Everybody wants to mow at the same time 2. Community goods are often treated careless, leaving me with a dirty or non-functional mower when it is my turn 3. Who is responsible for repairs
- derekp7 8y ago
  Not only that, but the last lawn mower I bought (with my first house) lasted me 20 years. Whereas I'm sure a lawn mower that is used 15 times a week wouldn't last much more than a season or two. Off topic, but when I bought a new mower last year, I couldn't believe how far the technology has come. No more primer bulb, starts easily on the first pull, and a few other items I don't recall off the top of my head. Same with cars, for example if you get out of it while it is still in gear it automatically puts itself in park, and it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling).
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    > it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling). Wow, this really cheered up my morning. Thanks.
  - ghufran_syed 8y ago
    Do you have a reference for the car engine thing? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything yet. Sounds really interesting, I'd like to read more.
    - kw71 8y ago
      Ford has been doing this for decades (I think I saw it mentioned in the docs for EEC IV.) It turns off fuel for a cylinder here and there intending to pump heat out of the engine (a cylinder with no fuel is an air pump.) It doesn't really let you operate with no coolant. Might get you farther before you die if you push it.
      - derekp7 8y ago
        You are correct, that the manual doesn't specifically say it can operate without coolant (now that I re-read it). What it does is active fail safe mode, then will shut the engine off once the temperature goes above another (higher) threshold. So I guess if coolant is completely gone (instead of just low), you may be able to drive for a few minutes then be shut down for a while before driving again (the main purpose is to give you enough time to find a safe spot to stop).
    - derekp7 8y ago
      Here is the owners manual for my car: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2017-Fusion-Hybrid-Owner-Manual-version-3_OM_EN-US_02_2017.pdf http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner... On page 259, under the heading "Fail-Safe Cooling". If the engine reaches a preset over-temperature condition, the engine automatically switches to alternating cylinder operation. Each disabled cylinder acts as an air pump and cools the engine. When this occurs, your vehicle still operates, however: • Engine power is limited. • The air conditioning system turns off. Continued operation increases the engine temperature, causing the engine to completely shut down. Your steering and braking effort increases in this situation.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    There are many different grades of mowers. A cheap residential mower is cheap and lasts just long enough that you don't think it was junk when you have to replace it. A commercial mower is used more in a month than most people mow in a lifetime and is built to higher quality (and price). The neighborhood mower would cost 10x as much last just as long and serve the needs of 20 people - so a better deal in the long run. However what price are you willing to pay to not have to use the mower on your neighborhood's schedule - owning your own is probably worth it for you.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Start a landscaping cooperative?
- robin_reala 8y ago
  Slightly ironically, your desire (understandable) to own your own mower overall contributes to the ultimate community good, the world, being left dirtier and non-functional.
  - YukonMoose 8y ago
    This is not true. What happens in the real world is that the communal mower will be hogged by the committee members put in charge of managing the mower. They need to do this for the good of the community. Pretty soon they will need to manage other community resources. Some animals are just more equal than others after all.
- vitaflo 8y ago
  You could ask the same question about coffee makers in an office, but we don't have coffee makers on every workers desk.
  - chopin 8y ago
    I think you have less congestion. I can come back 10 min later if the maker is blocked. That doesn't work with mowers.
nradov 8y ago
Nobody wants to drag a lawnmower from the other side of the neighborhood every time they want to mow their lawn. And over the long run, sharing lawnmowers wouldn't even reduce total lawnmower production. The shared lawnmowers would run more hours per week and need replacement sooner.
- everdrive 8y ago
  I understand the point you're making. (lawnmowers are simply a single example of a resource people do not wish to share) But, they're also a great example: we shouldn't have lawns which add nothing to the ecosystem and require resources to maintain. [edited]
  - eMSF 8y ago
    Most things won't pass your "test" on worthiness. You might be in a lonely group thinking it's a great test.
    - everdrive 8y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Most of us have a lot of things which add nothing to the ecosystem and require resources to maintain. Why single out lawns?
    - everdrive 8y ago
      Because each yard out there could in principle support at least a little biodiversity: at least some plants, some insects. Curated lawns tend to the opposite. But plants are "weeds" and insects are "pests." So people spray neurotoxins, and see how much biodiversity they can destroy.
      - nradov 8y ago
ryantuck 8y ago
This episode of EconTalk addresses the issue of transaction costs for things like lawnmowers and drills, and how future apps might solve that problem: https://www.econtalk.org/michael-munger-on-sharing-transaction-costs-and-tomorrow-3-0/ https://www.econtalk.org/michael-munger-on-sharing-transacti...
grecy 8y ago
You are 100% correct. At this point it's become anti-American to even suggest spending less money.

chopin 8y ago

But there's more to it to desire an own mower: 1. Everybody wants to mow at the same time 2. Community goods are often treated careless, leaving me with a dirty or non-functional mower when it is my turn 3. Who is responsible for repairs

derekp7 8y ago
Not only that, but the last lawn mower I bought (with my first house) lasted me 20 years. Whereas I'm sure a lawn mower that is used 15 times a week wouldn't last much more than a season or two. Off topic, but when I bought a new mower last year, I couldn't believe how far the technology has come. No more primer bulb, starts easily on the first pull, and a few other items I don't recall off the top of my head. Same with cars, for example if you get out of it while it is still in gear it automatically puts itself in park, and it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling).
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  > it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling). Wow, this really cheered up my morning. Thanks.
- ghufran_syed 8y ago
  Do you have a reference for the car engine thing? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything yet. Sounds really interesting, I'd like to read more.
  - kw71 8y ago
    Ford has been doing this for decades (I think I saw it mentioned in the docs for EEC IV.) It turns off fuel for a cylinder here and there intending to pump heat out of the engine (a cylinder with no fuel is an air pump.) It doesn't really let you operate with no coolant. Might get you farther before you die if you push it.
    - derekp7 8y ago
      You are correct, that the manual doesn't specifically say it can operate without coolant (now that I re-read it). What it does is active fail safe mode, then will shut the engine off once the temperature goes above another (higher) threshold. So I guess if coolant is completely gone (instead of just low), you may be able to drive for a few minutes then be shut down for a while before driving again (the main purpose is to give you enough time to find a safe spot to stop).
  - derekp7 8y ago
    Here is the owners manual for my car: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2017-Fusion-Hybrid-Owner-Manual-version-3_OM_EN-US_02_2017.pdf http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner... On page 259, under the heading "Fail-Safe Cooling". If the engine reaches a preset over-temperature condition, the engine automatically switches to alternating cylinder operation. Each disabled cylinder acts as an air pump and cools the engine. When this occurs, your vehicle still operates, however: • Engine power is limited. • The air conditioning system turns off. Continued operation increases the engine temperature, causing the engine to completely shut down. Your steering and braking effort increases in this situation.
- bluGill 8y ago
  There are many different grades of mowers. A cheap residential mower is cheap and lasts just long enough that you don't think it was junk when you have to replace it. A commercial mower is used more in a month than most people mow in a lifetime and is built to higher quality (and price). The neighborhood mower would cost 10x as much last just as long and serve the needs of 20 people - so a better deal in the long run. However what price are you willing to pay to not have to use the mower on your neighborhood's schedule - owning your own is probably worth it for you.
toomuchtodo 8y ago
Start a landscaping cooperative?
robin_reala 8y ago
Slightly ironically, your desire (understandable) to own your own mower overall contributes to the ultimate community good, the world, being left dirtier and non-functional.
- YukonMoose 8y ago
  This is not true. What happens in the real world is that the communal mower will be hogged by the committee members put in charge of managing the mower. They need to do this for the good of the community. Pretty soon they will need to manage other community resources. Some animals are just more equal than others after all.
vitaflo 8y ago
You could ask the same question about coffee makers in an office, but we don't have coffee makers on every workers desk.
- chopin 8y ago
  I think you have less congestion. I can come back 10 min later if the maker is blocked. That doesn't work with mowers.

nradov 8y ago

Nobody wants to drag a lawnmower from the other side of the neighborhood every time they want to mow their lawn. And over the long run, sharing lawnmowers wouldn't even reduce total lawnmower production. The shared lawnmowers would run more hours per week and need replacement sooner.

everdrive 8y ago
I understand the point you're making. (lawnmowers are simply a single example of a resource people do not wish to share) But, they're also a great example: we shouldn't have lawns which add nothing to the ecosystem and require resources to maintain. [edited]
- eMSF 8y ago
  Most things won't pass your "test" on worthiness. You might be in a lonely group thinking it's a great test.
  - everdrive 8y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean.
- nradov 8y ago
  Most of us have a lot of things which add nothing to the ecosystem and require resources to maintain. Why single out lawns?
  - everdrive 8y ago
    Because each yard out there could in principle support at least a little biodiversity: at least some plants, some insects. Curated lawns tend to the opposite. But plants are "weeds" and insects are "pests." So people spray neurotoxins, and see how much biodiversity they can destroy.
    - nradov 8y ago

ryantuck 8y ago

This episode of EconTalk addresses the issue of transaction costs for things like lawnmowers and drills, and how future apps might solve that problem: https://www.econtalk.org/michael-munger-on-sharing-transaction-costs-and-tomorrow-3-0/ https://www.econtalk.org/michael-munger-on-sharing-transacti...

grecy 8y ago

You are 100% correct. At this point it's become anti-American to even suggest spending less money.