5 ms·

Maybe I'm naïve, but I'm actually buying the obliviousness of his behavior. I don't really believe in Tesla and would gladly buy the whole "suicide by SEC" thin

by krick 8y ago

Maybe I'm naïve, but I'm actually buying the obliviousness of his behavior. I don't really believe in Tesla and would gladly buy the whole "suicide by SEC" thing, but reading what actually happened, this doesn't really sound like a big deal. Musk has been having emotional moments for a long time now, at this point it's really easy for me to just shrug off this as "he's always been like this". The last ten years of Musk carrier are just non-stop publicity-stunt drama, it's really easy to believe for me now that he honestly doesn't see the boundary that seems obvious to all lawyery SEC folks and other properly corporate people.

JauntTrooper 8y ago
He's not oblivious. He's being obstinate and bristling at their authority. He's been CEO of a public Tesla for 9 years now. Respecting the SEC and securities laws is just part of the CEO job. He's got great lawyers that remind him of this daily. And you'd think the $20 million fine and loss of the Chairman role would be enough of a wake up call. It's so frustrating to see, because I really want Tesla to succeed and I think he's one of the great executives of our time, and he wastes his time and attention on short-term inanities like short sellers and daily stock price movements. If he just buckled down and built cars, he'd blow all of those short sellers out of the water.
- mhermher 8y ago
  He can't. Those short sellers know that he's a fraud and he's scared to death of being exposed.
  - mandeepj 8y ago
    fraud? exposed? You don't start two or rather three industries with those qualities
    - serf 8y ago
      I agree that 'fraud' and 'exposed' are complete hyperbolic falsities , but what industries did Musk start, exactly? The closest I can think of is his early e-banking-ish stuff.
      - solarkraft 8y ago
        - Internet banking (has wasn't the only one, but successful in it [he participated in what is now called PayPal]) - Commercial space launches (admittedly there's competition, but with different goals/ none have come this far) with LANDING ROCKETS - Consumer electric vehicles (How would you disagree with this? There was nothing serious before Tesla. ) He hasn't invented much technology. But often enough he saw that we're not using our tech to its full potential and worked on doing exactly that. Pretty successfully, I would say.
        sangnoir 8y ago
        > How would you disagree with this? There was nothing serious before Tesla. I would disagree with this by saying he wasn't with Tesla at the start. He saw the potential of the industry early - but he didn't start it.
        solarkraft 8y ago
        You're technically right. I'd say it was close enough to it, though.
- rejschaap 8y ago
  > Respecting the SEC and securities laws He should respect the law, as in abide the law. But should he really show respect, as in deep admiration to the law or the commission? I know America is not the land of the free it used to be, but it is not a totalitarian state yet.
  - Traster 8y ago
    You're taking one of the two definitions of respect, the other definition is: >due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others. Which seems like a perfectly reasonable proposition.
  - mcv 8y ago
    It's a stupid fight to pick. He doesn't have to like the SEC or the law, but they exist, and they exist for a good reason. If he wants Tesla to succeed, he can't ignore or deny that. And although I love Elon Musk, the SEC is right; he shouldn't be twittering stupid things to temporarily boost his stock price. There's no gain for him in it, it's misleading, and it undermines long term trust in him and his company.
  - anth_anm 8y ago
    He probably should, at least not to the level of deliberately antagonizing them. It's foolish behaviour. Would be different if he didn't engage in illegal behaviour.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  He's stressed out about it because he continually over-promises. He needs to be concerned about the stock price because Tesla is going have to cover billion dollar debts in cash instead of stock. He also just can't stand the hit to his ego to have so many people shorting his company.
Balgair 8y ago
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor Elon is a human just like all of us. Look at his antics with twitter, Joe Rogan, and PewDiePie. It's not 4-D chess, it's just a normal person acting like a normal person, ie: stupid at times.
- krick 8y ago
  I actually wanted to start with a remark that "there's nothing more stupid than bringing up the whole Hanlon's razor thing, but this time I would agree with that"... So, yeah. Unlike "Occam's razor", there's absolutely nothing to justify "Hanlon's razor" as being an obviously more useful proposition than it's exact opposite. In fact, I would say it's harmful and annoying, because it contains implicit assumption that you (/me/the speaker) is smarter than whoever we are talking about. Which is arrogant and quite often is not the case. I wish people would stop quoting that.

by krick 8y ago

JauntTrooper 8y ago

He's not oblivious. He's being obstinate and bristling at their authority. He's been CEO of a public Tesla for 9 years now. Respecting the SEC and securities laws is just part of the CEO job. He's got great lawyers that remind him of this daily. And you'd think the $20 million fine and loss of the Chairman role would be enough of a wake up call. It's so frustrating to see, because I really want Tesla to succeed and I think he's one of the great executives of our time, and he wastes his time and attention on short-term inanities like short sellers and daily stock price movements. If he just buckled down and built cars, he'd blow all of those short sellers out of the water.

mhermher 8y ago
He can't. Those short sellers know that he's a fraud and he's scared to death of being exposed.
- mandeepj 8y ago
  fraud? exposed? You don't start two or rather three industries with those qualities
  - serf 8y ago
    I agree that 'fraud' and 'exposed' are complete hyperbolic falsities , but what industries did Musk start, exactly? The closest I can think of is his early e-banking-ish stuff.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      - Internet banking (has wasn't the only one, but successful in it [he participated in what is now called PayPal]) - Commercial space launches (admittedly there's competition, but with different goals/ none have come this far) with LANDING ROCKETS - Consumer electric vehicles (How would you disagree with this? There was nothing serious before Tesla. ) He hasn't invented much technology. But often enough he saw that we're not using our tech to its full potential and worked on doing exactly that. Pretty successfully, I would say.
      - sangnoir 8y ago
        > How would you disagree with this? There was nothing serious before Tesla. I would disagree with this by saying he wasn't with Tesla at the start. He saw the potential of the industry early - but he didn't start it.
        solarkraft 8y ago
        You're technically right. I'd say it was close enough to it, though.
rejschaap 8y ago
> Respecting the SEC and securities laws He should respect the law, as in abide the law. But should he really show respect, as in deep admiration to the law or the commission? I know America is not the land of the free it used to be, but it is not a totalitarian state yet.
- Traster 8y ago
  You're taking one of the two definitions of respect, the other definition is: >due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others. Which seems like a perfectly reasonable proposition.
- mcv 8y ago
  It's a stupid fight to pick. He doesn't have to like the SEC or the law, but they exist, and they exist for a good reason. If he wants Tesla to succeed, he can't ignore or deny that. And although I love Elon Musk, the SEC is right; he shouldn't be twittering stupid things to temporarily boost his stock price. There's no gain for him in it, it's misleading, and it undermines long term trust in him and his company.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  He probably should, at least not to the level of deliberately antagonizing them. It's foolish behaviour. Would be different if he didn't engage in illegal behaviour.
anth_anm 8y ago
He's stressed out about it because he continually over-promises. He needs to be concerned about the stock price because Tesla is going have to cover billion dollar debts in cash instead of stock. He also just can't stand the hit to his ego to have so many people shorting his company.

Balgair 8y ago

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor Elon is a human just like all of us. Look at his antics with twitter, Joe Rogan, and PewDiePie. It's not 4-D chess, it's just a normal person acting like a normal person, ie: stupid at times.

krick 8y ago
I actually wanted to start with a remark that "there's nothing more stupid than bringing up the whole Hanlon's razor thing, but this time I would agree with that"... So, yeah. Unlike "Occam's razor", there's absolutely nothing to justify "Hanlon's razor" as being an obviously more useful proposition than it's exact opposite. In fact, I would say it's harmful and annoying, because it contains implicit assumption that you (/me/the speaker) is smarter than whoever we are talking about. Which is arrogant and quite often is not the case. I wish people would stop quoting that.