5 ms·

Absolutely we can, the problem is that the California Rail project was a boondoggle from the start.

ur-whale 8y ago
We can't, because we're slowly turning into Europe: old, arthritic, short-sighted, and with complete tunnel vision. America was the one civilization that could have proven wrong the inevitability of the (rise-apogee-decadence) cycle ... looks like it wont. That's very sad.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  Europe can do mega projects: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel
  - ur-whale 8y ago
    That's in Switzerland. Switzerland is not exactly a standard part of Europe: it's not in the EU, it's much more capitalist than the rest of Europe and certainly not a country that's following the current downward socialist path to Venezuela-style hell many other European countries are on. If anything Switzerland is closer in spirit to the US than most other European countries.
    - noir_lord 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel
    - Daishiman 8y ago
      Nice goalpost moving there. So... not Europe, but then all of Europe except Switzerland. Next up someone's going to bring in the high-speed rail in Spain, the Rotterdam port modernization, and so on. Europe can do it, end of story.
    - Bayart 8y ago
      > it's not in the EU, it's much more capitalist than the rest of Europe There are certainly more capitalist places in Europe than Switzerland. Ireland, the Netherlands or Luxembourg come to mind. >and certainly not a country that's following the current downward socialist path to Venezuela-style hell many other European countries are on. I haven't noticed any oil socialist republics in Europe lately. Though a lot of countries indeed are on a downward path, but more akin to America's. Ie. the great dumbfuck uprising. >If anything Switzerland is closer in spirit to the US than most other European countries. Switzerland is closer to the countries it borders than any other place, and by a long shot. And in any case there are still big engineering projects all over the continent. The Lyon-Turin railway project includes a 57km tunnel being dug, but it's now threatened by the current Italian government (we're coming back to the dumbfuck uprising).
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Funny you should mention because Europe does big projects that span decades. They have the greatest rail infrastructure in the world. Even projects that require considerable more nuance and social integration, such as the revitalizing of Dutch public spaces to accommodate bicycles. [1] I think the bit you are missing is that European nations have more centralized authority, they're somewhat naturally more communitarian, and not quite as big on individual rights, and they're also not quite so big. For better or worse, it enables them to make longer term plans on some things. Here is a list of major European undertakings, granted the Norwegian one's are a little unfair given their vast oil wealth. [2] [1] https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-the-dutch-got-their-cycling-infrastructure/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-the-dutch-... [2] https://nordic.businessinsider.com/11-giant-infrastructure-projects-that-could-reshape-europe-2017-6/ https://nordic.businessinsider.com/11-giant-infrastructure-p...
  - masonic 8y ago
    the greatest rail infrastructure in the world Passenger rail. The USA has the greatest cargo infrastructure and greatest rail infrastructure overall.
    - FabHK 8y ago
      Interesting, according to CIA World Fact book, Railways: USA: 293,564 km EU: 230,548 km China: 124,000 km Edit to add: With the EU, however, having an area of about 4.5 m km^2, while USA and China have about 10 m km^2 each.
PopePompus 8y ago
I disagree. Not only can we no longer build large things, we are barely able to maintain the things we have. I lived in Cambridge MA during the repair of the Anderson Memorial Bridge, described here: http://larrysummers.com/2016/05/31/a-lesson-on-infrastructure-from-the-anderson-bridge-fiasco/ http://larrysummers.com/2016/05/31/a-lesson-on-infrastructur... . Fixing a very modest bridge across a placid river took years, and cost far more than the inflation-adjusted original cost of the bridge (took longer than the original construction too!). Look at NASA's marvelous manned space program. It has less manned launch capability than the agency had when the Mercury program was active. But they still spend money, doing extremely important things like sending "astronauts" to camp out on Mauna Loa and pretend they're on Mars.
- sixothree 8y ago
  > It has less manned launch capability than the agency had when the Mercury program was active. As it should. NASA has made a deliberate effort to move focus away from manned launch capability instead preferring to outsource. SLS is still in the pipeline though. Hopefully this is a great time of progress.
  - PopePompus 8y ago
    OK, fine. But why is NASA still pretending to build the Orion Spacecraft?

We can't, because we're slowly turning into Europe: old, arthritic, short-sighted, and with complete tunnel vision. America was the one civilization that could have proven wrong the inevitability of the (rise-apogee-decadence) cycle ... looks like it wont. That's very sad.

bryanlarsen 8y ago
Europe can do mega projects: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel
- ur-whale 8y ago
  That's in Switzerland. Switzerland is not exactly a standard part of Europe: it's not in the EU, it's much more capitalist than the rest of Europe and certainly not a country that's following the current downward socialist path to Venezuela-style hell many other European countries are on. If anything Switzerland is closer in spirit to the US than most other European countries.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel
  - Daishiman 8y ago
    Nice goalpost moving there. So... not Europe, but then all of Europe except Switzerland. Next up someone's going to bring in the high-speed rail in Spain, the Rotterdam port modernization, and so on. Europe can do it, end of story.
  - Bayart 8y ago
    > it's not in the EU, it's much more capitalist than the rest of Europe There are certainly more capitalist places in Europe than Switzerland. Ireland, the Netherlands or Luxembourg come to mind. >and certainly not a country that's following the current downward socialist path to Venezuela-style hell many other European countries are on. I haven't noticed any oil socialist republics in Europe lately. Though a lot of countries indeed are on a downward path, but more akin to America's. Ie. the great dumbfuck uprising. >If anything Switzerland is closer in spirit to the US than most other European countries. Switzerland is closer to the countries it borders than any other place, and by a long shot. And in any case there are still big engineering projects all over the continent. The Lyon-Turin railway project includes a 57km tunnel being dug, but it's now threatened by the current Italian government (we're coming back to the dumbfuck uprising).
sonnyblarney 8y ago
Funny you should mention because Europe does big projects that span decades. They have the greatest rail infrastructure in the world. Even projects that require considerable more nuance and social integration, such as the revitalizing of Dutch public spaces to accommodate bicycles. [1] I think the bit you are missing is that European nations have more centralized authority, they're somewhat naturally more communitarian, and not quite as big on individual rights, and they're also not quite so big. For better or worse, it enables them to make longer term plans on some things. Here is a list of major European undertakings, granted the Norwegian one's are a little unfair given their vast oil wealth. [2] [1] https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-the-dutch-got-their-cycling-infrastructure/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-the-dutch-... [2] https://nordic.businessinsider.com/11-giant-infrastructure-projects-that-could-reshape-europe-2017-6/ https://nordic.businessinsider.com/11-giant-infrastructure-p...
- masonic 8y ago
  the greatest rail infrastructure in the world Passenger rail. The USA has the greatest cargo infrastructure and greatest rail infrastructure overall.
  - FabHK 8y ago
    Interesting, according to CIA World Fact book, Railways: USA: 293,564 km EU: 230,548 km China: 124,000 km Edit to add: With the EU, however, having an area of about 4.5 m km^2, while USA and China have about 10 m km^2 each.

PopePompus 8y ago

I disagree. Not only can we no longer build large things, we are barely able to maintain the things we have. I lived in Cambridge MA during the repair of the Anderson Memorial Bridge, described here: http://larrysummers.com/2016/05/31/a-lesson-on-infrastructure-from-the-anderson-bridge-fiasco/ http://larrysummers.com/2016/05/31/a-lesson-on-infrastructur... . Fixing a very modest bridge across a placid river took years, and cost far more than the inflation-adjusted original cost of the bridge (took longer than the original construction too!). Look at NASA's marvelous manned space program. It has less manned launch capability than the agency had when the Mercury program was active. But they still spend money, doing extremely important things like sending "astronauts" to camp out on Mauna Loa and pretend they're on Mars.

sixothree 8y ago
> It has less manned launch capability than the agency had when the Mercury program was active. As it should. NASA has made a deliberate effort to move focus away from manned launch capability instead preferring to outsource. SLS is still in the pipeline though. Hopefully this is a great time of progress.
- PopePompus 8y ago
  OK, fine. But why is NASA still pretending to build the Orion Spacecraft?