7 ms·

I’ve always believed that if you’re a smart, educated, motivated person (if your reading this than I’m assuming you are one) that probably the best thing you ca

I’ve always believed that if you’re a smart, educated, motivated person (if your reading this than I’m assuming you are one) that probably the best thing you can do for the world is to have kids. Those kids will likely contribute to the world in all sorts of ways that we can’t imagine.

carno 8y ago
Are you implying kids of "smart, educated, motivated person" will contribute more than kids of people who don't fall into your arbitrary definition?
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Obviously genetics and nurture play a massive role in a person's upbringing and largely determine what kind of person they will be. What is the issue here exactly?
- mc32 8y ago
  If not, why have an education system at all?
  - carno 8y ago
    Exactly? Education happens in school, college, friends, community and, partially, at home. The concept that "my kids" are better than other people kids because they are like me is extremely silly on many levels. They might not share your ideals and even if they do, it promotes a single line of thinking.
    - mc32 8y ago
      Which is why it’s weird so many kids from other countries want to come here for their higher studies, right?
      - carno 8y ago
        Not sure I get your point. I don't think it's weird at all. Because: - That happens to every country - One in three top US professors educated overseas https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/one-in-three-top-us-professors-educated-overseas-study-finds https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/one-in-three-top-u... - Most of their classmates will be foreign students too https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...
        deogeo 8y ago
        > That happens to every country Both your sources are for the US only. How did you get to 'every country'?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - vibrato 8y ago
      The more we learn about iq the more heritable we believe it to be. Up to 80-85% in more recent studies
- echelon 8y ago
  I think so. There isn't anything controversial being said here. Children given education, good home lives, and goals are more likely to succeed than those without access to those opportunities. It isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we can't look for other ways to improve outcomes across the board.
  - carno 8y ago
    So the key is giving more kids those opportunities. Not just some kids.
- tom_ 8y ago
  But other people and their children are not mentioned.
ergothus 8y ago
> the best thing you can do for the world is to have kids ...yet what is the best thing for the kids? That's a harder thing to know - you can't really compare "not existing" with "living in a world that has a ton of issues". You can debate how bad the issues will be, but that really dodges the inability to make that comparison.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Most people would rather exist than not exist, and although it can sometimes seem like it, not everyone in the entire world is severely clinically depressed. Parents make decisions for their children all the time, and existence is one the the safest bets.
  - ergothus 8y ago
    Do you have the maximum number of children biologically possible? If not ( and I assume you haven't ), then you've made choices that have prevented others from existing. Assuming you are okay with that ( and I assume you are ) then the decisions involved are not a simple as you portray.
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      >Do you have the maximum number of children biologically possible? You can't reason about ethics from the standpoint that whatever you are doing right now is known to be ethical. If you did that, you'd just be constructing post-facto justifications for decisions you already made. There are plenty of things I should be doing from a utilitarian standpoint that I don't do (I'm not saving the maximum number of African children, for example).
      - ergothus 8y ago
        > You can't reason about ethics from the standpoint that whatever you are doing right now is known to be ethical. An excellent point...but we DO reason about ethics. We can draw parallels from our decisions in other areas to see if we are being consistent. Even if we can't achieve objectivity we can try for it and thus get closer. And from this I find I feel bad about the good to other living creatures I COULD be doing and am not....but that I don't feel sorrow for the lack of of sorrow and joy from creatures that are merely potential. Perhaps you feel differently. Others certainly do. I just want to point out that it's something worthy of thinking about rather than tossing out a facile "existence is always better".
cortesoft 8y ago
I get your argument, but in terms of environmental impact on climate change, those ‘smart, educated, and motivated’ kids will likely have a greater negative impact on climate change than less educated kids. It is the successful people who harm the environment the most. I still don’t believe that we should stop having kids, but let’s not pretend that OUR kids won’t harm the environment.
- rayiner 8y ago
  It's also the educated, motivated kids in the developed world that have the greatest chance of averting or remediating climate change.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Probably the best result would be a soft leveling off rather than abrupt stoppage in reproduction anywhere. Interestingly, some historians claim the Black Plague in Britain/England caused a disruption which later on cascaded in such way to allow the the transition from feudalism to more capital intensive economics (same wealth distributed among fewer heirs).
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Some of the worst offenders, which are generally companies and governments, are led by educated, motivated kits in the developed world.
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  Step 1. Move outside the US Step 2. Watch your kids's CO2 emissions get divided by 3 by pure magic. The lifestyle the US society pushes on you and your children pushes you to have much higher CO2 emissions than really useful (airplanes to go everywhere, higher salaries and higher consumption, ...).
soVeryTired 8y ago
You could always adopt kids and give them the benefit of your intelligence, education, and motivation.
- LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
  The "adopt" kids usually are the kids of alcoholic parents, who gave them a subtle but unrepairable "drink" too much. You will not be informed about that by government- and you will go through hell trying to repair what alcohol made unrepairable. Would advise that only if government guarantees no https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde...
  - misingnoglic 8y ago
    Do you have any statistics on that, or is that just your personal bias?
    - LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
      Sorry its paywalled and german: http://www.spiegel.de/plus/alkoholgeschaedigte-adoptivkinder-von-unserer-familie-ist-nichts-uebrig-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000159674416 http://www.spiegel.de/plus/alkoholgeschaedigte-adoptivkinder... Summary of the story: Government knowingly passed retarded children - who destroyed several marriages and familys- simply because that sort of damage is not fixable with love and understanding. You can only tolerate it and adapt your lifestyle to the new member of the family.
rinchik 8y ago
it's you're, mr. smart and educated. Children is the worst thing you can do for the climate and for the planet in general. Utopian hope that future generations will magically save the world is naive and plainly misleading. Reproduction is <chaos>, considering that we are actively altering/murdering natural selection process among humans, there’s no way "more humans" is a solution. Some optimists have theorized that population growth will stabilize at 9B, but in no way that can be true. Gene is selfish, after all.
jacques_chirac 8y ago
"...if your reading this than..." ouch
maceurt 8y ago
Furthermore, from my perspective I think that it is one's duty to have as many children as they think they can have within as long they it does not negatively effect the raising of their other children to a large degree, and it does not put one below the poverty line. Raising children who are moral/ upright, and positively add to the economy adds to the world by an exponential factor.
feketegy 8y ago
Yet the opposite is true, meaning that less educated people usually have more kids than vice-versa. Hans Rosling actually talked about this, that a way of stopping over population is by investing more in education in poorer areas.

carno 8y ago

Are you implying kids of "smart, educated, motivated person" will contribute more than kids of people who don't fall into your arbitrary definition?

EpicEng 8y ago
Obviously genetics and nurture play a massive role in a person's upbringing and largely determine what kind of person they will be. What is the issue here exactly?
mc32 8y ago
If not, why have an education system at all?
- carno 8y ago
  Exactly? Education happens in school, college, friends, community and, partially, at home. The concept that "my kids" are better than other people kids because they are like me is extremely silly on many levels. They might not share your ideals and even if they do, it promotes a single line of thinking.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Which is why it’s weird so many kids from other countries want to come here for their higher studies, right?
    - carno 8y ago
      Not sure I get your point. I don't think it's weird at all. Because: - That happens to every country - One in three top US professors educated overseas https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/one-in-three-top-us-professors-educated-overseas-study-finds https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/one-in-three-top-u... - Most of their classmates will be foreign students too https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...
      - deogeo 8y ago
        > That happens to every country Both your sources are for the US only. How did you get to 'every country'?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - vibrato 8y ago
    The more we learn about iq the more heritable we believe it to be. Up to 80-85% in more recent studies
echelon 8y ago
I think so. There isn't anything controversial being said here. Children given education, good home lives, and goals are more likely to succeed than those without access to those opportunities. It isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we can't look for other ways to improve outcomes across the board.
- carno 8y ago
  So the key is giving more kids those opportunities. Not just some kids.
tom_ 8y ago
But other people and their children are not mentioned.

ergothus 8y ago

> the best thing you can do for the world is to have kids ...yet what is the best thing for the kids? That's a harder thing to know - you can't really compare "not existing" with "living in a world that has a ton of issues". You can debate how bad the issues will be, but that really dodges the inability to make that comparison.

whatshisface 8y ago
Most people would rather exist than not exist, and although it can sometimes seem like it, not everyone in the entire world is severely clinically depressed. Parents make decisions for their children all the time, and existence is one the the safest bets.
- ergothus 8y ago
  Do you have the maximum number of children biologically possible? If not ( and I assume you haven't ), then you've made choices that have prevented others from existing. Assuming you are okay with that ( and I assume you are ) then the decisions involved are not a simple as you portray.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    >Do you have the maximum number of children biologically possible? You can't reason about ethics from the standpoint that whatever you are doing right now is known to be ethical. If you did that, you'd just be constructing post-facto justifications for decisions you already made. There are plenty of things I should be doing from a utilitarian standpoint that I don't do (I'm not saving the maximum number of African children, for example).
    - ergothus 8y ago
      > You can't reason about ethics from the standpoint that whatever you are doing right now is known to be ethical. An excellent point...but we DO reason about ethics. We can draw parallels from our decisions in other areas to see if we are being consistent. Even if we can't achieve objectivity we can try for it and thus get closer. And from this I find I feel bad about the good to other living creatures I COULD be doing and am not....but that I don't feel sorrow for the lack of of sorrow and joy from creatures that are merely potential. Perhaps you feel differently. Others certainly do. I just want to point out that it's something worthy of thinking about rather than tossing out a facile "existence is always better".

cortesoft 8y ago

I get your argument, but in terms of environmental impact on climate change, those ‘smart, educated, and motivated’ kids will likely have a greater negative impact on climate change than less educated kids. It is the successful people who harm the environment the most. I still don’t believe that we should stop having kids, but let’s not pretend that OUR kids won’t harm the environment.

rayiner 8y ago
It's also the educated, motivated kids in the developed world that have the greatest chance of averting or remediating climate change.
- mc32 8y ago
  Probably the best result would be a soft leveling off rather than abrupt stoppage in reproduction anywhere. Interestingly, some historians claim the Black Plague in Britain/England caused a disruption which later on cascaded in such way to allow the the transition from feudalism to more capital intensive economics (same wealth distributed among fewer heirs).
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Some of the worst offenders, which are generally companies and governments, are led by educated, motivated kits in the developed world.
thatfrenchguy 8y ago
Step 1. Move outside the US Step 2. Watch your kids's CO2 emissions get divided by 3 by pure magic. The lifestyle the US society pushes on you and your children pushes you to have much higher CO2 emissions than really useful (airplanes to go everywhere, higher salaries and higher consumption, ...).

soVeryTired 8y ago

You could always adopt kids and give them the benefit of your intelligence, education, and motivation.

LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
The "adopt" kids usually are the kids of alcoholic parents, who gave them a subtle but unrepairable "drink" too much. You will not be informed about that by government- and you will go through hell trying to repair what alcohol made unrepairable. Would advise that only if government guarantees no https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde...
- misingnoglic 8y ago
  Do you have any statistics on that, or is that just your personal bias?
  - LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
    Sorry its paywalled and german: http://www.spiegel.de/plus/alkoholgeschaedigte-adoptivkinder-von-unserer-familie-ist-nichts-uebrig-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000159674416 http://www.spiegel.de/plus/alkoholgeschaedigte-adoptivkinder... Summary of the story: Government knowingly passed retarded children - who destroyed several marriages and familys- simply because that sort of damage is not fixable with love and understanding. You can only tolerate it and adapt your lifestyle to the new member of the family.

rinchik 8y ago

it's you're, mr. smart and educated. Children is the worst thing you can do for the climate and for the planet in general. Utopian hope that future generations will magically save the world is naive and plainly misleading. Reproduction is <chaos>, considering that we are actively altering/murdering natural selection process among humans, there’s no way "more humans" is a solution. Some optimists have theorized that population growth will stabilize at 9B, but in no way that can be true. Gene is selfish, after all.

jacques_chirac 8y ago

"...if your reading this than..." ouch

maceurt 8y ago

Furthermore, from my perspective I think that it is one's duty to have as many children as they think they can have within as long they it does not negatively effect the raising of their other children to a large degree, and it does not put one below the poverty line. Raising children who are moral/ upright, and positively add to the economy adds to the world by an exponential factor.

feketegy 8y ago

Yet the opposite is true, meaning that less educated people usually have more kids than vice-versa. Hans Rosling actually talked about this, that a way of stopping over population is by investing more in education in poorer areas.