7 ms·

I was very surprised to discover this part. It also led me to discover a rabbit hole (spurred by the 'Spoon Theory' example) for which I did not have a name pre

I was very surprised to discover this part. It also led me to discover a rabbit hole (spurred by the 'Spoon Theory' example) for which I did not have a name previously. It is always amazing how certain articles suddenly give a name to a phenomenon that I had to use so many words to describe. This kind of content is what I come to HN for!

pjc50 8y ago
Glad you've discovered "spoon theory" - it's become a common shorthand in some internet communities for all kinds of chronic illness / mental health impairments and the need to explain why a seemingly trivial thing seems overwhelming.
- mcphage 8y ago
  Why spoons? Does the choice of a spoon have some deeper meaning?
  - ajb 8y ago
    No deeper meaning - it was invented in a restaurant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
    - mcphage 8y ago
      Ah, that makes sense, then. Thanks.
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
I've just learned about this spoon analogy and absolutely loved it. What's better, it's not just about disabilities. You've got kids to take care of? Here goes one spoon. You are not a native speaker and a bit slow in getting what others say? Here goes another one. A sick spouse at home? The third and the last one is gone and that's when things become interesting!
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
  I don't really know if I'm comfortable applying spoon theory to contexts outside of disabilities (and even outside of chronic illness). In the context of chronic illness going out of one's spoons has serious, long-term, immediate, and maybe debilitating repercussions for the person in the management of their condition. The original context was that someone has like 10 spoons that day, and showering is 2 spoons and clothing onessels is 2 more spoons unless a piece of clothing has buttons which makes it 3 spoons due to joint pain in the hands. This was in order to show how incredibly resource intensive chronic illness management is and how it limits a lifestyle. It is a much different thing than having to take care of a child, not being a native speaker, or having a sick spouse, which describe additional difficulties onto an otherwise functional human being. Spoon theory explicitly applies to the context in which fundamentally functional actions like self-care take significantly more resources than expected. I have some concern that this is actually a dilution of the original meaning such that it removes its original usefullness to the chronically ill community, which has to deal with the stigma of being potentially severely limited with an "invisible" illness, and the spoon theory was an attempt to describe the "invisible" illness's effect on a person's life (therefore aiding in destigmatization). By diluting the original meaning, we may be contributing to the continued stigmatizing of "invisible" illnesses, as now spoon theory is changed to mean something almost opposite of its original meaning.
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    I hear what you say and indeed, on one hand the dilution may be seen as a problem. On the other hand, do we really want to build this wall by saying there are chronically ill people, there are healthy people and these two crowds are governed by completely different rules, have absolutely orthogonal problems and no parallels can be drawn between them to avoid the "dilution"? Or we'd rather say that disabled people's problems are the same as healthy people's problems, just worse and affect your life in more aspects? Wouldn't that remove the stigma and help us understand each other better?
    - SolaceQuantum 8y ago
nradov 8y ago
Spoon theory is a attractive concept, but it appears to be largely based on the ego depletion hypothesis. And that one hasn't held up very well now that scientists have attempted to reproduce the original experiments. So I'm skeptical whether it's of much practical use.
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
  Spoon theory is not based on ego depletion except when applied to mental illness; its original creation was based on the experience of someone with lupus and the very real physical ramifications of being limited in lifestyle because of the disease.
  - krinchan 8y ago
    Exactly. The spoons represent a much more abstract budget of time, physical energy, multitasking capacity, and stress.
- krinchan 8y ago
  Ego depletion isn't really the same thing. Ego depletion is about doing things you don't want to do or not doing something you want to do. It implies we have limited bits of self-control. Spoons theory is more metaphor, trying to describe the penalty on both time, energy and capacity a disability applies to your day to day to people who have an excess of both to handle the mundane. One problem I have is that spoons theory says, "You have 20 spoons per day, I have 5." While the end result is the same, it's more that getting dressed in the morning requires 1 spoon for me and 4 spoons for someone with a disability. Similarly, other mundane activities require four times the amount of time and energy. Also you can borrow spoons from the next day, either by skipping sleep or just outright pushing through an activity well beyond your disability's limit. However, then you have less time and energy the next day. It's definitely in line with normalizing deviance. Most people who can hold down a job and an independent life with a disability are operating at their limits. They have no spare spoons for emergencies or unexpected events. The people around then normalize that and then become surprised when "one small thing" blows everything out of whack for two days. That person had no more spoons to spare. They borrowed from the next day, and now their Fibro has them bedridden, the stress triggered a manic episode, etc.

pjc50 8y ago

Glad you've discovered "spoon theory" - it's become a common shorthand in some internet communities for all kinds of chronic illness / mental health impairments and the need to explain why a seemingly trivial thing seems overwhelming.

mcphage 8y ago
Why spoons? Does the choice of a spoon have some deeper meaning?
- ajb 8y ago
  No deeper meaning - it was invented in a restaurant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
  - mcphage 8y ago
    Ah, that makes sense, then. Thanks.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

I've just learned about this spoon analogy and absolutely loved it. What's better, it's not just about disabilities. You've got kids to take care of? Here goes one spoon. You are not a native speaker and a bit slow in getting what others say? Here goes another one. A sick spouse at home? The third and the last one is gone and that's when things become interesting!

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
I don't really know if I'm comfortable applying spoon theory to contexts outside of disabilities (and even outside of chronic illness). In the context of chronic illness going out of one's spoons has serious, long-term, immediate, and maybe debilitating repercussions for the person in the management of their condition. The original context was that someone has like 10 spoons that day, and showering is 2 spoons and clothing onessels is 2 more spoons unless a piece of clothing has buttons which makes it 3 spoons due to joint pain in the hands. This was in order to show how incredibly resource intensive chronic illness management is and how it limits a lifestyle. It is a much different thing than having to take care of a child, not being a native speaker, or having a sick spouse, which describe additional difficulties onto an otherwise functional human being. Spoon theory explicitly applies to the context in which fundamentally functional actions like self-care take significantly more resources than expected. I have some concern that this is actually a dilution of the original meaning such that it removes its original usefullness to the chronically ill community, which has to deal with the stigma of being potentially severely limited with an "invisible" illness, and the spoon theory was an attempt to describe the "invisible" illness's effect on a person's life (therefore aiding in destigmatization). By diluting the original meaning, we may be contributing to the continued stigmatizing of "invisible" illnesses, as now spoon theory is changed to mean something almost opposite of its original meaning.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  I hear what you say and indeed, on one hand the dilution may be seen as a problem. On the other hand, do we really want to build this wall by saying there are chronically ill people, there are healthy people and these two crowds are governed by completely different rules, have absolutely orthogonal problems and no parallels can be drawn between them to avoid the "dilution"? Or we'd rather say that disabled people's problems are the same as healthy people's problems, just worse and affect your life in more aspects? Wouldn't that remove the stigma and help us understand each other better?
  - SolaceQuantum 8y ago

nradov 8y ago

Spoon theory is a attractive concept, but it appears to be largely based on the ego depletion hypothesis. And that one hasn't held up very well now that scientists have attempted to reproduce the original experiments. So I'm skeptical whether it's of much practical use.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
Spoon theory is not based on ego depletion except when applied to mental illness; its original creation was based on the experience of someone with lupus and the very real physical ramifications of being limited in lifestyle because of the disease.
- krinchan 8y ago
  Exactly. The spoons represent a much more abstract budget of time, physical energy, multitasking capacity, and stress.
krinchan 8y ago
Ego depletion isn't really the same thing. Ego depletion is about doing things you don't want to do or not doing something you want to do. It implies we have limited bits of self-control. Spoons theory is more metaphor, trying to describe the penalty on both time, energy and capacity a disability applies to your day to day to people who have an excess of both to handle the mundane. One problem I have is that spoons theory says, "You have 20 spoons per day, I have 5." While the end result is the same, it's more that getting dressed in the morning requires 1 spoon for me and 4 spoons for someone with a disability. Similarly, other mundane activities require four times the amount of time and energy. Also you can borrow spoons from the next day, either by skipping sleep or just outright pushing through an activity well beyond your disability's limit. However, then you have less time and energy the next day. It's definitely in line with normalizing deviance. Most people who can hold down a job and an independent life with a disability are operating at their limits. They have no spare spoons for emergencies or unexpected events. The people around then normalize that and then become surprised when "one small thing" blows everything out of whack for two days. That person had no more spoons to spare. They borrowed from the next day, and now their Fibro has them bedridden, the stress triggered a manic episode, etc.