7 ms·

As of today we have cloud offerings of for instance azure completely separate from the US companies due to this. Here in Norway we can get the complete azure o

by tyfon 8y ago

As of today we have cloud offerings of for instance azure completely separate from the US companies due to this. Here in Norway we can get the complete azure offering from a company called Evry using azure stack [1] and there is a data centre like this in Germany too at least that I know of, probably many more. And sectors like government and banking are required to use them and not the parent companies offerings, especially if it contains PII. If this goes on I suspect a lot of the revenue US tech companies see today will disappear even if (for now) most run the licensed version of azure stack and the like. [1] https://www.evry.com/en/what-we-do/key-services/evry-cloud-services/the-cloud-is-now-local---evry-azure-stack/ https://www.evry.com/en/what-we-do/key-services/evry-cloud-s...

entity345 8y ago
> We can now finally announce that, together with Dell EMC, and as one of the first companies in the world, successfully deployed a customer-ready, production version of Azure Stack. If they're working with Dell EMC, an American company, then it's still the exact same issue.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  One step at a time. Having physical control over data definitely is an improvement. Not everyone believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards.
  - Tsubasachan 8y ago
    Microsoft Euro branch is still subject to US law. The US can still seize your data.
    - tyfon 8y ago
      Yes, that is why you use azure stack and not azure. It's a licensed version of the software that you can run completely independent of Microsoft.
      - kkarakk 8y ago
        licenses usually include provisions for being disabled if the parent country requires it. see what happened to iran when US levied sanctions
        TomMarius 8y ago
        Disabled != data changes hands.
        zaphirplane 8y ago
        Usually you want that unless you don’t and you don’t here :)
  - ionised 8y ago
    > believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards. You mean not everyone believes the cold, hard truth? That's unfortunate, because most of us here saw the evidence of this taking place.
    - fixermark 8y ago
      Interesting. Can you provide a source?
      - chopin 8y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims_that_ME_is_a_backdoor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims...
        Dahoon 8y ago
        How is that a chip in a mainboard? The mainboard story was a propaganda piece in Bloomberg aimed at China.
        chopin 8y ago
        Afaik the processor is a chip on the mainboard. I personally don't care which part of the mainboard carries the backdoor.
        fixermark 8y ago
        With respect, what you linked to is a conspiracy theory that the ME is used in ways other than explicitly stated by Intel and unsupported by any evidence other than allegation.
        acct1771 8y ago
        "Can be used in ways other than explicitly stated" quickly turns into "is used": "https://hackaday.com/2017/12/07/another-defeat-of-the-intel-management-engine/ https://hackaday.com/2017/12/07/another-defeat-of-the-intel-... "The Intel Management Engine with its proprietary firmware has complete access to and control over the PC: it can power on or shut down the PC, read all open files, examine all running applications, track all keys pressed and mouse movements, and even capture or display images on the screen. And it has a network interface that is demonstrably insecure, which can allow an attacker on the network to inject rootkits that completely compromise the PC and can report to the attacker all activities performed on the PC. It is a threat to freedom, security, and privacy that can't be ignored." - Hackaday
baybal2 8y ago
That cloud thing is overhyped. The "Cloud" will never swallow the budget and mid-tier hosting industry for purely economic reasons. Uncle Liu hosting Co. and AWS are the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware, and both buying from mid-tier OEM server assemblers. The days of people buying $10k Dell servers are gone, and ones ability to capitalise on undercutting major hosters by buying directly from OEMs is gone too, because every large scale hosting co began doing the same.
- basejumping 8y ago
  Cloud is not purely hosting, it's the services on top, the benefits of the company behind it. I don't know the statistics but probably bigger companies will pay a premium knowing that it's Amazon doing the hosting and not 10 different Uncle Lius.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- solarkraft 8y ago
  > the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware Maybe not for long. Some providers (Amazon, Google) are working on their own processors.
vegardx 8y ago
Outside of the government sector it seems like these laws are to make sure that the data is within legal jurisdiction, and has nothing to do with privacy.
- tyfon 8y ago
  Banking data is at least considered to be "important" enough to keep within the borders too, but privacy is important too in regards to GDPR. How do you prevent unauthorized access to the data (i.e. the US government) with the cloud act. Do you report those requests as a breech? There is really no difference between that and having the servers hacked in other ways.
  - vegardx 8y ago
    Banking data is important because the police and tax authority wants to make sure they have access, privacy doesn't really come into play here. It's a nice side effect, though. It's the same with accounting data. When it comes to GDPR it only talks about where and by who data is processed, it doens't really put any restriction on storage, except for some pretty vague (on purpose) requirements about data protection (read: encryption).
    - tyfon 8y ago
      But if the US government access PII without authorization via the cloud act wouldn't it count as a data breech when it comes to GDPR?
      - vegardx 8y ago
        Then they should be getting encrypted or pseudoanonymised data, if you are following the regulations. For services like AWS you can argue that they should be able to get ahold of these encryption keys, but most data protection authorities seems to think this is good enough.
        thefounder 8y ago
tpush 8y ago
The German one at least was cancelled recently [0] (source in German). [0] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Auslaufmodell-Microsoft-Cloud-Deutschland-4152650.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Auslaufmodell-Micros...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

by tyfon 8y ago

entity345 8y ago

> We can now finally announce that, together with Dell EMC, and as one of the first companies in the world, successfully deployed a customer-ready, production version of Azure Stack. If they're working with Dell EMC, an American company, then it's still the exact same issue.

TomMarius 8y ago
One step at a time. Having physical control over data definitely is an improvement. Not everyone believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  Microsoft Euro branch is still subject to US law. The US can still seize your data.
  - tyfon 8y ago
    Yes, that is why you use azure stack and not azure. It's a licensed version of the software that you can run completely independent of Microsoft.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      licenses usually include provisions for being disabled if the parent country requires it. see what happened to iran when US levied sanctions
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        Disabled != data changes hands.
      - zaphirplane 8y ago
        Usually you want that unless you don’t and you don’t here :)
- ionised 8y ago
  > believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards. You mean not everyone believes the cold, hard truth? That's unfortunate, because most of us here saw the evidence of this taking place.
  - fixermark 8y ago
    Interesting. Can you provide a source?
    - chopin 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims_that_ME_is_a_backdoor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims...
      - Dahoon 8y ago
        How is that a chip in a mainboard? The mainboard story was a propaganda piece in Bloomberg aimed at China.
        chopin 8y ago
        Afaik the processor is a chip on the mainboard. I personally don't care which part of the mainboard carries the backdoor.
      - fixermark 8y ago
        With respect, what you linked to is a conspiracy theory that the ME is used in ways other than explicitly stated by Intel and unsupported by any evidence other than allegation.
        acct1771 8y ago
        "Can be used in ways other than explicitly stated" quickly turns into "is used": "https://hackaday.com/2017/12/07/another-defeat-of-the-intel-management-engine/ https://hackaday.com/2017/12/07/another-defeat-of-the-intel-... "The Intel Management Engine with its proprietary firmware has complete access to and control over the PC: it can power on or shut down the PC, read all open files, examine all running applications, track all keys pressed and mouse movements, and even capture or display images on the screen. And it has a network interface that is demonstrably insecure, which can allow an attacker on the network to inject rootkits that completely compromise the PC and can report to the attacker all activities performed on the PC. It is a threat to freedom, security, and privacy that can't be ignored." - Hackaday

baybal2 8y ago

That cloud thing is overhyped. The "Cloud" will never swallow the budget and mid-tier hosting industry for purely economic reasons. Uncle Liu hosting Co. and AWS are the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware, and both buying from mid-tier OEM server assemblers. The days of people buying $10k Dell servers are gone, and ones ability to capitalise on undercutting major hosters by buying directly from OEMs is gone too, because every large scale hosting co began doing the same.

basejumping 8y ago
Cloud is not purely hosting, it's the services on top, the benefits of the company behind it. I don't know the statistics but probably bigger companies will pay a premium knowing that it's Amazon doing the hosting and not 10 different Uncle Lius.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
solarkraft 8y ago
> the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware Maybe not for long. Some providers (Amazon, Google) are working on their own processors.

vegardx 8y ago

Outside of the government sector it seems like these laws are to make sure that the data is within legal jurisdiction, and has nothing to do with privacy.

tyfon 8y ago
Banking data is at least considered to be "important" enough to keep within the borders too, but privacy is important too in regards to GDPR. How do you prevent unauthorized access to the data (i.e. the US government) with the cloud act. Do you report those requests as a breech? There is really no difference between that and having the servers hacked in other ways.
- vegardx 8y ago
  Banking data is important because the police and tax authority wants to make sure they have access, privacy doesn't really come into play here. It's a nice side effect, though. It's the same with accounting data. When it comes to GDPR it only talks about where and by who data is processed, it doens't really put any restriction on storage, except for some pretty vague (on purpose) requirements about data protection (read: encryption).
  - tyfon 8y ago
    But if the US government access PII without authorization via the cloud act wouldn't it count as a data breech when it comes to GDPR?
    - vegardx 8y ago
      Then they should be getting encrypted or pseudoanonymised data, if you are following the regulations. For services like AWS you can argue that they should be able to get ahold of these encryption keys, but most data protection authorities seems to think this is good enough.
      - thefounder 8y ago

tpush 8y ago

The German one at least was cancelled recently [0] (source in German). [0] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Auslaufmodell-Microsoft-Cloud-Deutschland-4152650.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Auslaufmodell-Micros...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]