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>You are the master of your own destiny. You don’t have to spend time in any way that you don’t choose to, so you might as well spend time taking care of yourse

>You are the master of your own destiny. You don’t have to spend time in any way that you don’t choose to, so you might as well spend time taking care of yourself rather than trying to figure out how. Fundamentally, I don't think this is true. I think free will is a meme. When you exercise self-possession to change your habits (insofar as you really did it consciously to begin with[0]), you're moving within a predefined space whose boundaries are encoded by myriad factors beyond your control. If, in that space, there's both "succumb to bad habits" and "break bad habits", and you managed to move to "break bad habits", great. But what if the space is only confined to "succumb to bad habits" for some people? That's the fundamental difference here: the conventional concept of agency assumes everyone's decision space is equally voluminous or that they can navigate with equal effort. Especially disgusting to me is that holders of this view can recline in the comfortable callousness their ignorance or mythology affords them. If someone hasn't improved their circumstances, it's their moral failing, so they deserve their misery. On the other hand, the callousness that materialist elitism affords you, that someone who can't improve their circumstances deserves their misery, is less comfortable, so it's a better kind of callousness. Many of us couldn't survive without the coddling of our parents and our civilization, and, on average, our civilization is a better place for our participation in it. Given our highly collective world of artifice, why would someone have a worldview that emphasizes some kind of Darwinism? It's a little silly and less palatable than the handwaving of moral virtue, so the end the result is that you're more forgiving of people's failures and proactive in their success. 0: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/free-will-is-your-brain-the-boss-of-you-video/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/free-will-...

iliketosleep 8y ago
How can we possibly escape Darwinism? Isn't it always present in one form or another? There will always be some particular traits will lead to better rates of survival in a particular society. In a world of abundance, discipline could be key - I have seen strong men destroy themselves through a lack of discipline. In a world of scarcity, those same men may have been heroic survivors. In modern society, we try to transform the selection process of Darwinism into something more abstract and therefore less noticeable to our primitive brains.
naasking 8y ago
> But what if the space is only confined to "succumb to bad habits" for some people? No person would be so constrained. The space of possible behaviours is simply too large, so you're arguing a moralistic stance from an unreasonable assumption. Furthermore, free will and determinism are not at odds. Even if someone were fully constrained to act in only a single way, that doesn't entail they would not be morally blameworthy. The mistake you and others who argue against free will make, is that you assume moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment. While this is often the case in religious beliefs, it simply does not follow without additional assumptions. Your beef is not with free will. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
- smallgovt 8y ago
  > No person would be so constrained. The space of possible behaviours is simply too large, so you're arguing a moralistic stance from an unreasonable assumption. Can you elaborate on why the space is simply too large to make this a possibility? From my observations of people suffering from severe addictions, it seems entirely possible that they have no agency when it comes to combating their addiction. They either are completely unable to grok the consequences of their actions or unable to choose actions that they know will benefit themselves. > The mistake you and others who argue against free will make, is that you assume moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment I don't think GP assumes moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment. I think, rather, he assumes that immoral acts are worthy of punishment. That is, if we happen to decide to punish a certain set of actions, we should punish immoral actions. I think this is a fair assumption. The primary goal of morality discussions is to determine which actions we want to strive for and which actions we want to avoid.
  - Ntrails 8y ago
    > From my observations of people suffering from severe addictions, it seems entirely possible that they have no agency when it comes to combating their addiction. The easy solution here is to simply claim that free will is something you can give up, and once lost it can be near impossible to regain. I also pretty firmly believe that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Without the belief in the ultimate power of your own free will, it would seem perfectly obvious that you can be constrained the the point of impotence. I don't judge or disparage people who choose not to believe as I do, for me it is a tool to enable myself to take responsibility and own my outcomes.

iliketosleep 8y ago

How can we possibly escape Darwinism? Isn't it always present in one form or another? There will always be some particular traits will lead to better rates of survival in a particular society. In a world of abundance, discipline could be key - I have seen strong men destroy themselves through a lack of discipline. In a world of scarcity, those same men may have been heroic survivors. In modern society, we try to transform the selection process of Darwinism into something more abstract and therefore less noticeable to our primitive brains.

naasking 8y ago

> But what if the space is only confined to "succumb to bad habits" for some people? No person would be so constrained. The space of possible behaviours is simply too large, so you're arguing a moralistic stance from an unreasonable assumption. Furthermore, free will and determinism are not at odds. Even if someone were fully constrained to act in only a single way, that doesn't entail they would not be morally blameworthy. The mistake you and others who argue against free will make, is that you assume moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment. While this is often the case in religious beliefs, it simply does not follow without additional assumptions. Your beef is not with free will. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

smallgovt 8y ago
> No person would be so constrained. The space of possible behaviours is simply too large, so you're arguing a moralistic stance from an unreasonable assumption. Can you elaborate on why the space is simply too large to make this a possibility? From my observations of people suffering from severe addictions, it seems entirely possible that they have no agency when it comes to combating their addiction. They either are completely unable to grok the consequences of their actions or unable to choose actions that they know will benefit themselves. > The mistake you and others who argue against free will make, is that you assume moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment I don't think GP assumes moral blameworthiness necessarily entails punishment. I think, rather, he assumes that immoral acts are worthy of punishment. That is, if we happen to decide to punish a certain set of actions, we should punish immoral actions. I think this is a fair assumption. The primary goal of morality discussions is to determine which actions we want to strive for and which actions we want to avoid.
- Ntrails 8y ago
  > From my observations of people suffering from severe addictions, it seems entirely possible that they have no agency when it comes to combating their addiction. The easy solution here is to simply claim that free will is something you can give up, and once lost it can be near impossible to regain. I also pretty firmly believe that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Without the belief in the ultimate power of your own free will, it would seem perfectly obvious that you can be constrained the the point of impotence. I don't judge or disparage people who choose not to believe as I do, for me it is a tool to enable myself to take responsibility and own my outcomes.