8 ms·

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model.

by avs733 8y ago

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt. I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. The first gen I got rid of at the first opportunity. The car did it's job but the shifter physical design was moronic and the fit and finish was so bad that I actually cut myself on a piece of the interior plastic one day. The 2nd gen is 'just a car' a nice car actually. Excepting a maintenance screwup by a dealer I have had zero - zero - maintenance issues with the second gen. Because I don't ever have to charge it, and don't drive it much, I can usually charge it for free (I'm an apartment dweller). I spend about 80% of the miles on electric. I think I've bought two tanks of gas in six months. Funny story...a friend of mine's mother was actually the lead systems engineer on gen one. I met her at a graduation party and we had about a 3 hr long engineering nerd out over the 1st gen. I asked about a billion 'why did you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left on the table.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> the shifter physical design was moronic The gear shifter? I thought electric cars didn't have those? I thought they were push-pedal-and-go like a go-kart?
- azhenley 8y ago
  Drive, neutral, reverse, park.
- hnuser123456 8y ago
  You still shift it into park/drive/reverse. I've been in one but don't remember having a problem with it, besides the atrocious visibility.
- baobrain 8y ago
  I think they might mean the shifter to change from park/drive/reverse/neutral
  - riffic 8y ago
    Editors at Wikipedia call this a "Selector" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick
    - sparky_z 8y ago
      Pretty sure they're the only ones.
- avs733 8y ago
  https://gm-volt.com/2010/07/21/chevrolet-volt-shifter-narrowed/ https://gm-volt.com/2010/07/21/chevrolet-volt-shifter-narrow... The version on prototypes was super super awkward. The production version still made you have to insert your hand into a hole to shift into or out of park. I cut myself on the big plastic surround of that part of the console
- black-tea 8y ago
  For some reason car manufacturers have stuck with a gear shifter looking thing to change between drive modes on automatics for a really long time. They've only just started to change it to buttons.
sitkack 8y ago
God has wish that conversation was recorded, I’d probably listen to it twice.
- avs733 8y ago
  We talked for a while about using the onboard GPS to help the hybrid system optimize decisions about power management if it knew where you were going. We also talked about variable regenerative braking which ended up in the 2nd gen Lawyers and 'the idiot public' we're a lot of it.
  - zeroping 8y ago
    I just want to know why the clock can't be set using the GPS.
    - mcny 8y ago
      Not a GM employee but I think the number of people who mess with their clock is bigger than we think. People are weird. They set their clock five minutes ahead or whatever. I also think an optional cellular/GPS based time update would be nice though.
      - xvf22 8y ago
        This is true but you could allow the user to set an offset.
        craz8 8y ago
        And now you’ve added 2 configuration options that need to be tested, documented, and supported for probably 20 Of your customers This is exactly the hidden complexity that HN users love to add to products that adds no real value and sells no extra product
        awinder 8y ago
43920 8y ago
Are there any answers from that conversation that stood out to you in particular? I'd be really interested to hear them!
- avs733 8y ago
  Basically...you can't build a car with a novice and expert operator mode as much sense as that would make. Also the amount of thought that goes into some decisions kinda amazed me.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jac_no_k 8y ago
    Regarding "novice and expert" mode. Default should be novice mode. Extra steps to go into "expert" mode. Examples I could think of: * Launch control (maximum acceleration from a stop.) * Track mode (turn down or disable stability control) * One pedal drive mode. (Nissan Leaf e-pedal or just B-mode for strong regen) Ah well... It would be interesting to hear more of the reasons behind decisions.
    - black-tea 8y ago
      No, expert mode is "turn all this crap off and let me control the throttle and gearbox directly".
      - projektfu 8y ago
        That’s all good but this car doesn’t have a throttle connected to the drivetrain and the only thing that looks like a gearbox is a planetary gear that may be changed at high speeds.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      I suspect she was mainly talking about "no one pedal driving" as novice mode -- and I think it's a mistake to turn that off for novices, because it's something that drivers quickly adapt to having. And then love.
radicalbyte 8y ago
You should ask her if she would be interested (and able) to do an interview with one of the prominent EV podcasters or youtubers.
mehrdada 8y ago
> it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. At least in the US, I think you'd be underestimating how much one can rely on a proper fully electric vehicle (i.e. a Tesla, and perhaps Bolt?). I doubt a Model 3 LR holder would ever need a second sedan.
- michaelt 8y ago
  At least in my country, two years ago (presumably when avs733 was buying his car) if you wanted an all-electric vehicle with >150 mile range, you had to spend £90,000 on a Tesla Model S. All the other manufacturers' cars (Renault Zoe, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf) were 145 mile range or less. It's only recently that EVs like the Hyundai Kona (£30k for 245 miles) and the Jaguar I-Pace (£61k for 235 miles) have come on the market.
  - jononor 8y ago
    150 versus 145 miles is nothing. Why is 150 of all numbers the requirement?
    - michaelt 8y ago
      Perhaps I wasn't clear, what I mean to say is "If you wish to buy a new all-electric car and, after taking taking into account your mix of city and highway driving; how closely you believe your driving will match the different range testing standards; availability and speed of charging along your route and at your destination; different speeds of charging with different battery sizes and at different battery charge levels; anticipated battery degradation with usage; expected passenger and luggage weight; extra range 'safety margin'; and the uncertainty of your needs over the planned duration of car ownership; your single charge range requirement is greater than 145 miles and less than 315 miles, a Tesla model S or X with a price of £89k-£134k was your only option; and if your range requirement was greater than that there was nothing on the market whatsoever" Saying ">150 miles" was simply me being succinct.
  - Marazan 8y ago
    Greater than 150, as in significantly greater than
Shivetya 8y ago
tl;dr very long, owned a Volt, because of it bought a TM3 Owned a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, I made this choice because I wanted to "dip my toes" into the EV experience and only needing one car I needed one that could go anywhere. I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. The fit and finish was very good for any car, it drove very well, and EV mode was an eye opener. Being in Georgia meant that from spring to fall I could easily exceed the fifty three mile EV range, at times I approached seventy miles and this with AC on; disclaimer is that I had very little true highway speeds on my fifty four mile round trip to work. Cooler weather, as in forties or below drop the range below EPA and freezing opened up other opportunities. Mainly I would leave home with the car conditioned and turn the gasoline motor on for part of the commute to more readily heat the cabin and buffer my range for return trip home in EV mode. Cabin noise from the gas engine was incredibly hushed. Now I own a TM3, I credit GM for that. The Volt sold me on EV driving. The effortless power that is present all the time and the quietness of the drive train. Why not the Bolt? Well GM was typical GM. They made a ZEV car and only went as far as they had to beat Tesla to the PR punch and soak ZEV credits to continue their sales of petrol burning cars, a fleet that ranks near the bottom. The Bolt lost out for many reasons, the first being lack of range. No trip planner could get me through either of my two yearly trips; as in it was impossible on some legs. The TM3 blows through it because of range and charging options. The second reason was the same reason I did not buy a first generation Volt, the interior, namely the dash, looked Fisher Price. Throw in horrid front seats and yes they were bad, and it was a no go. I do like the packaging otherwise. The Volt is gone because ZEV credits for PHEVs took a dive after 2018. As in nearly nothing compared to what they were. GM gamed the ZEV system in 2017 and 2018 so that they have banked enough credits till near 2021 which is when their EV focus will switch to Cadillac. Now not to knock GM only, Tesla leaves a lot to be desired. Most of the features in my TM3 are very shallow implementations of other cars. My Volt had complete blue tooth audio integration, my Tesla requires me to use my phone to switch play lists, by artist, and such. Which is not fun because my state is a hands free state. The Volt had superior energy monitoring breaking out HVAC from the EV motor and even showing impact of the drive on efficiency. Tesla never delivered on voice commands, my car knows about six commands - a toyota corolla has more than three times as many. Instead Tesla gave me fart humor and a fireplace
- 8y ago
longhorn_alum 8y ago
> I asked about a billion 'why did you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left on the table. Never leave anything on the table.

by avs733 8y ago

chrisseaton 8y ago

> the shifter physical design was moronic The gear shifter? I thought electric cars didn't have those? I thought they were push-pedal-and-go like a go-kart?

azhenley 8y ago
Drive, neutral, reverse, park.
hnuser123456 8y ago
You still shift it into park/drive/reverse. I've been in one but don't remember having a problem with it, besides the atrocious visibility.
baobrain 8y ago
I think they might mean the shifter to change from park/drive/reverse/neutral
- riffic 8y ago
  Editors at Wikipedia call this a "Selector" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick
  - sparky_z 8y ago
    Pretty sure they're the only ones.
avs733 8y ago
https://gm-volt.com/2010/07/21/chevrolet-volt-shifter-narrowed/ https://gm-volt.com/2010/07/21/chevrolet-volt-shifter-narrow... The version on prototypes was super super awkward. The production version still made you have to insert your hand into a hole to shift into or out of park. I cut myself on the big plastic surround of that part of the console
black-tea 8y ago
For some reason car manufacturers have stuck with a gear shifter looking thing to change between drive modes on automatics for a really long time. They've only just started to change it to buttons.

sitkack 8y ago

God has wish that conversation was recorded, I’d probably listen to it twice.

avs733 8y ago
We talked for a while about using the onboard GPS to help the hybrid system optimize decisions about power management if it knew where you were going. We also talked about variable regenerative braking which ended up in the 2nd gen Lawyers and 'the idiot public' we're a lot of it.
- zeroping 8y ago
  I just want to know why the clock can't be set using the GPS.
  - mcny 8y ago
    Not a GM employee but I think the number of people who mess with their clock is bigger than we think. People are weird. They set their clock five minutes ahead or whatever. I also think an optional cellular/GPS based time update would be nice though.
    - xvf22 8y ago
      This is true but you could allow the user to set an offset.
      - craz8 8y ago
        And now you’ve added 2 configuration options that need to be tested, documented, and supported for probably 20 Of your customers This is exactly the hidden complexity that HN users love to add to products that adds no real value and sells no extra product
        awinder 8y ago

43920 8y ago

Are there any answers from that conversation that stood out to you in particular? I'd be really interested to hear them!

avs733 8y ago
Basically...you can't build a car with a novice and expert operator mode as much sense as that would make. Also the amount of thought that goes into some decisions kinda amazed me.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jac_no_k 8y ago
  Regarding "novice and expert" mode. Default should be novice mode. Extra steps to go into "expert" mode. Examples I could think of: * Launch control (maximum acceleration from a stop.) * Track mode (turn down or disable stability control) * One pedal drive mode. (Nissan Leaf e-pedal or just B-mode for strong regen) Ah well... It would be interesting to hear more of the reasons behind decisions.
  - black-tea 8y ago
    No, expert mode is "turn all this crap off and let me control the throttle and gearbox directly".
    - projektfu 8y ago
      That’s all good but this car doesn’t have a throttle connected to the drivetrain and the only thing that looks like a gearbox is a planetary gear that may be changed at high speeds.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    I suspect she was mainly talking about "no one pedal driving" as novice mode -- and I think it's a mistake to turn that off for novices, because it's something that drivers quickly adapt to having. And then love.

radicalbyte 8y ago

You should ask her if she would be interested (and able) to do an interview with one of the prominent EV podcasters or youtubers.

mehrdada 8y ago

> it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. At least in the US, I think you'd be underestimating how much one can rely on a proper fully electric vehicle (i.e. a Tesla, and perhaps Bolt?). I doubt a Model 3 LR holder would ever need a second sedan.

michaelt 8y ago
At least in my country, two years ago (presumably when avs733 was buying his car) if you wanted an all-electric vehicle with >150 mile range, you had to spend £90,000 on a Tesla Model S. All the other manufacturers' cars (Renault Zoe, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf) were 145 mile range or less. It's only recently that EVs like the Hyundai Kona (£30k for 245 miles) and the Jaguar I-Pace (£61k for 235 miles) have come on the market.
- jononor 8y ago
  150 versus 145 miles is nothing. Why is 150 of all numbers the requirement?
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Perhaps I wasn't clear, what I mean to say is "If you wish to buy a new all-electric car and, after taking taking into account your mix of city and highway driving; how closely you believe your driving will match the different range testing standards; availability and speed of charging along your route and at your destination; different speeds of charging with different battery sizes and at different battery charge levels; anticipated battery degradation with usage; expected passenger and luggage weight; extra range 'safety margin'; and the uncertainty of your needs over the planned duration of car ownership; your single charge range requirement is greater than 145 miles and less than 315 miles, a Tesla model S or X with a price of £89k-£134k was your only option; and if your range requirement was greater than that there was nothing on the market whatsoever" Saying ">150 miles" was simply me being succinct.
- Marazan 8y ago
  Greater than 150, as in significantly greater than

Shivetya 8y ago

tl;dr very long, owned a Volt, because of it bought a TM3 Owned a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, I made this choice because I wanted to "dip my toes" into the EV experience and only needing one car I needed one that could go anywhere. I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. The fit and finish was very good for any car, it drove very well, and EV mode was an eye opener. Being in Georgia meant that from spring to fall I could easily exceed the fifty three mile EV range, at times I approached seventy miles and this with AC on; disclaimer is that I had very little true highway speeds on my fifty four mile round trip to work. Cooler weather, as in forties or below drop the range below EPA and freezing opened up other opportunities. Mainly I would leave home with the car conditioned and turn the gasoline motor on for part of the commute to more readily heat the cabin and buffer my range for return trip home in EV mode. Cabin noise from the gas engine was incredibly hushed. Now I own a TM3, I credit GM for that. The Volt sold me on EV driving. The effortless power that is present all the time and the quietness of the drive train. Why not the Bolt? Well GM was typical GM. They made a ZEV car and only went as far as they had to beat Tesla to the PR punch and soak ZEV credits to continue their sales of petrol burning cars, a fleet that ranks near the bottom. The Bolt lost out for many reasons, the first being lack of range. No trip planner could get me through either of my two yearly trips; as in it was impossible on some legs. The TM3 blows through it because of range and charging options. The second reason was the same reason I did not buy a first generation Volt, the interior, namely the dash, looked Fisher Price. Throw in horrid front seats and yes they were bad, and it was a no go. I do like the packaging otherwise. The Volt is gone because ZEV credits for PHEVs took a dive after 2018. As in nearly nothing compared to what they were. GM gamed the ZEV system in 2017 and 2018 so that they have banked enough credits till near 2021 which is when their EV focus will switch to Cadillac. Now not to knock GM only, Tesla leaves a lot to be desired. Most of the features in my TM3 are very shallow implementations of other cars. My Volt had complete blue tooth audio integration, my Tesla requires me to use my phone to switch play lists, by artist, and such. Which is not fun because my state is a hands free state. The Volt had superior energy monitoring breaking out HVAC from the EV motor and even showing impact of the drive on efficiency. Tesla never delivered on voice commands, my car knows about six commands - a toyota corolla has more than three times as many. Instead Tesla gave me fart humor and a fireplace

8y ago

longhorn_alum 8y ago

> I asked about a billion 'why did you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left on the table. Never leave anything on the table.