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I was thinking recently about why I find programming languages so interesting. The answer I came up with was that programming languages allow you to create your

I was thinking recently about why I find programming languages so interesting. The answer I came up with was that programming languages allow you to create your own reality. You get to define how things work in this reality. Want functions to be values that can be arguments and return values? Sure! Want a lot of crazy symbols to do complicated math? Go for it! Want everything to be dynamic? Why not. The caveat that comes with this description is that sometimes people shouldn't create their own reality. Whether it's making decisions that ultimately lead to really screwy universes or just not being prepared to deal with the power that comes with changing the very fabric of reality, some people will not mesh well with LOP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

nikki93 8y ago
A pretty great example of "microworlds" from Seymour Papert'a "Mindstorms," which you would enjoy!
black-tea 8y ago
Yeah, that's what I like about languages like Lisp and to a lesser extent Python and, conversely, why I dislike languages like Go.
- elizabeth_olu 8y ago
  https://www.elizabethblog.com.ng/2019/02/rkelly-arrested-and-charged-with-10.html https://www.elizabethblog.com.ng/2019/02/rkelly-arrested-and...
- yesenadam 8y ago
  uh..What is? (what you like about them)
  - k__ 8y ago
    Go has quite its own reality. Structural typing, no generics, interface oriented. Sure, Java has interfaces, C doesn't have generics and TypeScript is also structurally typed, but I guess nominal typing, generics, and OOP is what most people who like static typing in the first place prefer.
- karmakaze 8y ago
  The worst is when people do use Go to make their own reality. It's not meant for that and it's never pretty.
platz 8y ago
I think the ability to conjure up things out of nothing, that have no constraints derived from the physical world, is a lot of the appeal of computer-based activites such as programming or 3d graphics in the first place.
sagartewari01 8y ago
It looks like one will have to write a whole lot of languages to be reasonably good at language oriented programming. Remember the first couple of programs you wrote? I bet they were all quite similar.
amelius 8y ago
The problem is that people often create languages that are basically the same as existing languages; no new concepts. New languages are usually a grab-bag of features found in C, Java, Lisp and/or Haskell.
- johnfn 8y ago
  My guess is that you’re seeing popularity based selection bias at work: languages with more common features are easier to understand and gain popularity faster than truly bizarre and unique languages which are confusing to newcomers. These popular languages end up being the ones you see every day. I bet a true random sample of programming languages would be a lot weirder.
  - amelius 8y ago
    I'd love to see some examples.
    - dfgdghdf 8y ago
      ///
    - kbob 8y ago
      Find the video '50 in 50' by Steele and Gabriel. 50 programming languages of the last 50 years, illustrated in 50 minutes. It includes all the popular languages, but also covers some truly weird ones.
- Tarean 8y ago
  I feel like programming languages that wants to be used in production have a novelty budget. Rust does a great job of managing this, for instance. Haskell is an interesting case because it is a fairly simple language by default (hm type system) with laziness as big innovation. But it also lets you play with experimental features via language extensions. Some work out great, others like implicit nested data parallelism get axed eventually.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
karmakaze 8y ago
This is exactly why I got into programming, to make my own realities in then-current 8-bit games. I've since switched to this more abstract endeavour which gives the same satisfaction without realizing this being the reason. I'm also holding out for a VR title that can showcase this aspect rather than a horror in SciFi backdrop.
- rrix2 8y ago
  Some demos/press copies of Dreams VR recently showed off some compelling creative storytelling tools - https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/dreams-01302019/2970-18741 https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/dreams-01302019/2970-18741 - http://dreams.mediamolecule.com/ http://dreams.mediamolecule.com/

nikki93 8y ago

A pretty great example of "microworlds" from Seymour Papert'a "Mindstorms," which you would enjoy!

black-tea 8y ago

Yeah, that's what I like about languages like Lisp and to a lesser extent Python and, conversely, why I dislike languages like Go.

elizabeth_olu 8y ago
https://www.elizabethblog.com.ng/2019/02/rkelly-arrested-and-charged-with-10.html https://www.elizabethblog.com.ng/2019/02/rkelly-arrested-and...
yesenadam 8y ago
uh..What is? (what you like about them)
- k__ 8y ago
  Go has quite its own reality. Structural typing, no generics, interface oriented. Sure, Java has interfaces, C doesn't have generics and TypeScript is also structurally typed, but I guess nominal typing, generics, and OOP is what most people who like static typing in the first place prefer.
karmakaze 8y ago
The worst is when people do use Go to make their own reality. It's not meant for that and it's never pretty.

platz 8y ago

I think the ability to conjure up things out of nothing, that have no constraints derived from the physical world, is a lot of the appeal of computer-based activites such as programming or 3d graphics in the first place.

sagartewari01 8y ago

It looks like one will have to write a whole lot of languages to be reasonably good at language oriented programming. Remember the first couple of programs you wrote? I bet they were all quite similar.

amelius 8y ago

The problem is that people often create languages that are basically the same as existing languages; no new concepts. New languages are usually a grab-bag of features found in C, Java, Lisp and/or Haskell.

johnfn 8y ago
My guess is that you’re seeing popularity based selection bias at work: languages with more common features are easier to understand and gain popularity faster than truly bizarre and unique languages which are confusing to newcomers. These popular languages end up being the ones you see every day. I bet a true random sample of programming languages would be a lot weirder.
- amelius 8y ago
  I'd love to see some examples.
  - dfgdghdf 8y ago
    ///
  - kbob 8y ago
    Find the video '50 in 50' by Steele and Gabriel. 50 programming languages of the last 50 years, illustrated in 50 minutes. It includes all the popular languages, but also covers some truly weird ones.
Tarean 8y ago
I feel like programming languages that wants to be used in production have a novelty budget. Rust does a great job of managing this, for instance. Haskell is an interesting case because it is a fairly simple language by default (hm type system) with laziness as big innovation. But it also lets you play with experimental features via language extensions. Some work out great, others like implicit nested data parallelism get axed eventually.
dragonwriter 8y ago

karmakaze 8y ago

This is exactly why I got into programming, to make my own realities in then-current 8-bit games. I've since switched to this more abstract endeavour which gives the same satisfaction without realizing this being the reason. I'm also holding out for a VR title that can showcase this aspect rather than a horror in SciFi backdrop.

rrix2 8y ago
Some demos/press copies of Dreams VR recently showed off some compelling creative storytelling tools - https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/dreams-01302019/2970-18741 https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/dreams-01302019/2970-18741 - http://dreams.mediamolecule.com/ http://dreams.mediamolecule.com/