4 ms·

This is actually very similar to the apprenticeship system that my dad went through in order to become an electrician. They essentially paid him to train throug

This is actually very similar to the apprenticeship system that my dad went through in order to become an electrician. They essentially paid him to train through apprentice to journeyman. That said, it was through a union and they have certain guarantees about the level of pay and conditions that are acceptable for work, and the usual benefits of collective bargaining. What are your thoughts on software developers / engineers and unionization?

maccio92 8y ago
I have no relation to the company, but I don't support unionization. The unionization in my mom's industry effectively locked her into her current employer with no hope of leaving. If she were to switch jobs, she'd have to start back at the beginning of the union pay sale and work her way back up over 10 years
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Can you give details because it sounds extremely unlikely that a union would act to stop their members being able to get a new job that recognises their experience -- can't the companies employing those unionised workers just fire 10% every year and cut wages dramatically? Can't you just leave the union, move jobs? I'm guessing this is going to be one of those "I can't believe USA thinks it's a [good example of a] democracy moment"?!? So, pics or it didn't happen??
ronilan 8y ago
So, this is actually not so very similar in any aspect that actually matters.
asd33313131 8y ago
That's similar what we're going for, apprenticeship. We think that hands-on projects help people learn very fast. Some of the projects are from us (specifically designed for learning), and some of them are real-world. As for unionization, I am not sure. The demand is high enough for software developers that we are willing to take risk to not get paid back if they earning below $40,000. So we don't guarantee a salary but we make sure they don't pay us if they are aren't earning enough.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Love this, fwiw. I'm in the UK, or I'd be on it. Anyway, is it literally $40k you pay 15% ($6k), below you pay nothing? Is there any sort of tax saving, do "graduates" pay tax on the full amount but pay out 15% to an "educational trust"? Are you a non-profit?
  - asd33313131 8y ago
    Under $40k, nothing owed. We are for-profit. We think that model can help us scale faster than the tax advantage of the non-profit can help us. Larger non-profits can play a role in the future of this market though, with various guarantees and cheaper capital.
    - ASpring 8y ago
      Have you considered bracketing it or is this a purposeful marketing point? If a graduate is offered 2 jobs at 39k and 50k, would they make more at the 39k job in the short term?
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        At 50k they'll take 42.5 gross, $46k (40 + 15%) is the inflection. Save special tax situations anything over $46k will get them more than having a <$40k gross wage.
      - asd33313131 8y ago
        Marginal rates (brackets) are a good idea. Right now, too complex for the capital markets around this product and we think (possibly) for the customer, so we're sticking to the flat rate.
        Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        You certainly know more about this than I do (running a company and all that), but the situation described in the GP strikes me as a likely real-world scenario, and a bad outcome for both you and the customer.

maccio92 8y ago

I have no relation to the company, but I don't support unionization. The unionization in my mom's industry effectively locked her into her current employer with no hope of leaving. If she were to switch jobs, she'd have to start back at the beginning of the union pay sale and work her way back up over 10 years

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Can you give details because it sounds extremely unlikely that a union would act to stop their members being able to get a new job that recognises their experience -- can't the companies employing those unionised workers just fire 10% every year and cut wages dramatically? Can't you just leave the union, move jobs? I'm guessing this is going to be one of those "I can't believe USA thinks it's a [good example of a] democracy moment"?!? So, pics or it didn't happen??

ronilan 8y ago

So, this is actually not so very similar in any aspect that actually matters.

asd33313131 8y ago

That's similar what we're going for, apprenticeship. We think that hands-on projects help people learn very fast. Some of the projects are from us (specifically designed for learning), and some of them are real-world. As for unionization, I am not sure. The demand is high enough for software developers that we are willing to take risk to not get paid back if they earning below $40,000. So we don't guarantee a salary but we make sure they don't pay us if they are aren't earning enough.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Love this, fwiw. I'm in the UK, or I'd be on it. Anyway, is it literally $40k you pay 15% ($6k), below you pay nothing? Is there any sort of tax saving, do "graduates" pay tax on the full amount but pay out 15% to an "educational trust"? Are you a non-profit?
- asd33313131 8y ago
  Under $40k, nothing owed. We are for-profit. We think that model can help us scale faster than the tax advantage of the non-profit can help us. Larger non-profits can play a role in the future of this market though, with various guarantees and cheaper capital.
  - ASpring 8y ago
    Have you considered bracketing it or is this a purposeful marketing point? If a graduate is offered 2 jobs at 39k and 50k, would they make more at the 39k job in the short term?
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      At 50k they'll take 42.5 gross, $46k (40 + 15%) is the inflection. Save special tax situations anything over $46k will get them more than having a <$40k gross wage.
    - asd33313131 8y ago
      Marginal rates (brackets) are a good idea. Right now, too complex for the capital markets around this product and we think (possibly) for the customer, so we're sticking to the flat rate.
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        You certainly know more about this than I do (running a company and all that), but the situation described in the GP strikes me as a likely real-world scenario, and a bad outcome for both you and the customer.