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Life is fundamentally empty. Unless you're religious: you live for a while then you die. Maybe you successfully procreated, and your descendants live until some

Life is fundamentally empty. Unless you're religious: you live for a while then you die. Maybe you successfully procreated, and your descendants live until something gets them too. Eventually climate change, or asteroids or supernova gets everyone left.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I don't see how being temporary means that a thing lacks meaning.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  How could anything mean anything when pretty soon (in a cosmological sense) there won't be any such thing as a mind in which meaning could exist?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    Well in that case, since the universe itself is ultimately doomed, why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I submit that the "fake" subjective meaning and some "real" objective meaning are indistinguishable.
    - shrimp_emoji 8y ago
      And how do you know that the black of our heat death isn't the white of more universes and civilizations than there's ever been before but which we'll never see not that it matters except in an absurdly selfish way? :3 That's what a Nine Inch Nails song taught me once. (But, given that we don't know what most matter or energy that makes up the Universe is, it feels a little silly to anchor meaning to current cosmological knowledge. Maybe a nice meaning to adopt is to improve that knowledge because we might discover ways to insulate against heat death indefinitely or something. Although you likely won't be doing that at the salaries in the OP.)
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      > why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I believe I already stipulated to religious belief as a way out of this quandary.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        I contest the use of 'religion' to refer to 'subjective meaning' on the grounds that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Things have meaning right now during your existence. I honestly don't see how the impermanence of your existence impacts that.
- shrimp_emoji 8y ago
  It lacks objective meaning (that we know of or if that can even exist), but that doesn't stop me from assigning it, and operating on, subjective meaning. In fact, I can't even stop myself from doing that. It's almost as if the brain evolved to run on silly fiat meaning for its survival.
- alehul 8y ago
  Agree with you here, but how does communism give meaning? For me, I've grown up in a capitalist society, with parents from a communist one. My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have long, healthy, enjoyable lives together. If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this... and I don't know how you can argue that there's no meaning to the pursuit of a better world for everyone (with small exceptions, creating value is necessary for making money in a capitalistic society), reaping the rewards of that value creation, and making sure that it benefits and protects those I love.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    I never said anything about communism, and neither did the GP for that matter, you can blame Jon for bringing that term to the table. >My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have enjoyable lives together. > If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this Why not? It's just a different environment, different set of rules, and different challenges. Some people navigated communism well and found meaning, many others did not. The GP seemed to be using the label of capitalism to apply to sociopathic profit-seeking-for-its-own-sake, as opposed to the loosely defined economic and political model of capitalism. In that sense, what they're saying makes a lot of sense.
Fnoord 8y ago
> Life is fundamentally empty. Unless you're religious There are more -isms than those. In Sapiens, Harari argues ideologies such as capitalism and communism and belief systems such as your company serve the very same purpose: to give life a meaning. To me, it appears akin to fairytales we tell our children.
r00fus 8y ago
Unless we have a diaspora. Believing in the future of humanity is a thing. Not all higher callings are religious.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Damned right. This guy is on the money. Power to our future.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Nothing lasts forever. Eventually the heat death of the universe will come for humanity, no matter how many solar systems you imagine we might colonize.
JohnFen 8y ago
I disagree. I am not religious, but I don't see life as fundamentally empty at all. Our mortality isn't relevant to that.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I don't see how being temporary means that a thing lacks meaning.

ForHackernews 8y ago
How could anything mean anything when pretty soon (in a cosmological sense) there won't be any such thing as a mind in which meaning could exist?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Well in that case, since the universe itself is ultimately doomed, why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I submit that the "fake" subjective meaning and some "real" objective meaning are indistinguishable.
  - shrimp_emoji 8y ago
    And how do you know that the black of our heat death isn't the white of more universes and civilizations than there's ever been before but which we'll never see not that it matters except in an absurdly selfish way? :3 That's what a Nine Inch Nails song taught me once. (But, given that we don't know what most matter or energy that makes up the Universe is, it feels a little silly to anchor meaning to current cosmological knowledge. Maybe a nice meaning to adopt is to improve that knowledge because we might discover ways to insulate against heat death indefinitely or something. Although you likely won't be doing that at the salaries in the OP.)
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    > why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I believe I already stipulated to religious belief as a way out of this quandary.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      I contest the use of 'religion' to refer to 'subjective meaning' on the grounds that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  Things have meaning right now during your existence. I honestly don't see how the impermanence of your existence impacts that.
shrimp_emoji 8y ago
It lacks objective meaning (that we know of or if that can even exist), but that doesn't stop me from assigning it, and operating on, subjective meaning. In fact, I can't even stop myself from doing that. It's almost as if the brain evolved to run on silly fiat meaning for its survival.
alehul 8y ago
Agree with you here, but how does communism give meaning? For me, I've grown up in a capitalist society, with parents from a communist one. My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have long, healthy, enjoyable lives together. If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this... and I don't know how you can argue that there's no meaning to the pursuit of a better world for everyone (with small exceptions, creating value is necessary for making money in a capitalistic society), reaping the rewards of that value creation, and making sure that it benefits and protects those I love.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I never said anything about communism, and neither did the GP for that matter, you can blame Jon for bringing that term to the table. >My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have enjoyable lives together. > If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this Why not? It's just a different environment, different set of rules, and different challenges. Some people navigated communism well and found meaning, many others did not. The GP seemed to be using the label of capitalism to apply to sociopathic profit-seeking-for-its-own-sake, as opposed to the loosely defined economic and political model of capitalism. In that sense, what they're saying makes a lot of sense.

Fnoord 8y ago

> Life is fundamentally empty. Unless you're religious There are more -isms than those. In Sapiens, Harari argues ideologies such as capitalism and communism and belief systems such as your company serve the very same purpose: to give life a meaning. To me, it appears akin to fairytales we tell our children.

r00fus 8y ago

Unless we have a diaspora. Believing in the future of humanity is a thing. Not all higher callings are religious.

scarejunba 8y ago
Damned right. This guy is on the money. Power to our future.
ForHackernews 8y ago
Nothing lasts forever. Eventually the heat death of the universe will come for humanity, no matter how many solar systems you imagine we might colonize.

JohnFen 8y ago

I disagree. I am not religious, but I don't see life as fundamentally empty at all. Our mortality isn't relevant to that.