8 ms·

When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? Although I'm 29, I still remember a time where there w

When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? Although I'm 29, I still remember a time where there was at least the pretense of civility. Civility was the oil that kept this machine running smoothly, now it's sputtering left and right. We don't even use formal names like Mr./Ms. as much as we once did, if at all. I felt that was an important part of creating a barrier of civil respect, distinguishing personal relationships from civil relationships. We threw a lot of cultural things away that were actually pretty damn important. Edit: Also, my karma is now a binary number. Please don't up vote.

eeZah7Ux 8y ago
> disrespect What disrespect? Where was that? A whole comment thread developed without anybody questioning the alleged "disrespect"...
BucketSort 8y ago
Hmm, it seems we need to have some discussions about civility in this country. It seems like people have become confused about its role and why its important. I guess it's easy to lose sight of that when the President goes around calling people childish nicknames.
kazagistar 8y ago
Pollution is a personal choice? Maybe people figured out that "personal choice" wad being used as a shield to freely destroy and exploit commons.
farisjarrah 8y ago
I think that this is a bit of a fallacy, ever so slightly akin to the ideology behind "Make America Great Again". When was this fabled time where everyone was civil to each other? Does the popular usage of Mr./Mrs. really mean we are being civil? People may have called each other Mr. and Mrs. in the 50's but many people were also extremely judgemental based on religious choices, many people were racist, sexist, etc etc.... I am not really buying this argument. People have always been civil and people have always been bad to each other. One really need to just judge peoples emotional maturity on a case by case basis.
astura 8y ago
It's really ok and not at all "disrespectful" for a company's chief culture officer/cofounder to remind a company PR Rep (and subordinate) to be mindful to display company ethos while at work. She's a PR Rep, her job is literately to represent the company. When did we become so self centered that we think we can behave however we please while at work under the guise of "it's just a personal choice, man" and any reprimanding of not following company policies is automatically considered "disrespectful?"
pjc50 8y ago
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? It always has been, surely? But for a different set of things than mere consumer choice.
peteretep 8y ago
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? When people started having personal choices that affected the people around them. So: since always.
- notacoward 8y ago
  I think you're answering a different question than was asked. When did it become acceptable to politely suggest a different personal choice? Since always, as you say. When did it become acceptable to disrespect them for a personal choice? Pretty recently, and should have been never. That includes the personal choice to rationalize that kind of condescending priggishness online. What kind of person gets their jollies that way? Those who live by the sword, and all that. Maybe it would be better if we could all express the same ideas in more respectful and collaborative ways, at least to start with.
  - geofft 8y ago
    The article doesn't have enough detail to conclude whether "admonished" meant politely or with disrespect.
    - burger_moon 8y ago
      In what situation would you walk up to a stranger and tell them to be mindful of themselves for carrying a plastic water bottle and it's not disrespectful. Mind your own business maybe?
      - mithr 8y ago
        > In what situation would you walk up to a stranger Walking up to a stranger is one thing, but that really wasn't the case here... in this case, a comment was made to company-appointed P.R. representative who was present at a meeting with a journalist who was there to write about the company, its values, and its culture. I think the founder of the company commenting on the same company's P.R. person not adhering to the company's values is very much him "minding his own business".
peterwwillis 8y ago
Back in the 1960s, if you were black and seated at a lunch counter, a white person would spit in your face. Which was considered perfectly civil for a lot of white people. In some cultures, at various times (including today), the civil thing to do is to berate and even beat a woman if she appears in public without covering her hair or face. To the guy in the story, telling someone to not use the plastic water bottle was the civil thing to do. Civility has always been subjective.
- BucketSort 8y ago
  Those were not civil actions for civilly minded people. Of course, people loathe each other behind closed doors and the less respectable people bring it out in public. Let me ask you this, would such an interaction as described in the OP comment happen in Japan? They seem to understand the importance of respect.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    They’ve also gotten very adept at showing disrespect without seeming to.
  - brazzledazzle 8y ago
    Some of that’s politeness, face and collective harmony though. You can be disrespected politely.
    - BucketSort 8y ago
      The idea is that there's a time and a place. If you are interviewing someone, you are there for an interview. It isn't a personal interaction. You are there to do a job. Why transform it from a formal engagement to a personal matter? We should respect the civil barrier.
  - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
    "Seem to" Japan has nasty edges, just like every other country.
  - 8y ago
dragonwriter 8y ago
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? That time is lost in the mists of history, though which choices this is acceptable for have been different in different times and places.
- BucketSort 8y ago
  Yeah, I guess I should have said "mainstream personal choices." If one does something deviant, politeness has typically always gone out the window. These days people pick fights just so they can put themselves in some virtuous light. It's really annoying.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    These are defined the other way round: "mainstream" is the set of things people accept, and "deviant" is what they call things they don't.
    - notacoward 8y ago
      A peer comment to yours nicely illustrates the point. Everyone wants to appropriate "mainstream" for themselves, even as they also want to be recognized as the vanguard of whatever movement they are (transiently) promoting.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    No, these days behaviors which you remember being unquestionably mainstream are now on the disputed boundary where some substantial number of people see them as deviant.
dsr_ 8y ago
People used to be polite to each other as long as they were the right people, but being polite to the wrong people became a sin called "political correctness".
- RodericDay 8y ago
  Being not racist? Political correctness. Your face melting off when someone doesn't stand for the anthem? ????????? Saying some black guy attacked by a cop deserved it for being impolite to the pig? ?????????????????
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
scottlegrand2 8y ago
May I suggest listening to "National Brotherhood Week" by Tom Lehrer? https://youtu.be/aIlJ8ZCs4jY https://youtu.be/aIlJ8ZCs4jY

eeZah7Ux 8y ago

> disrespect What disrespect? Where was that? A whole comment thread developed without anybody questioning the alleged "disrespect"...

BucketSort 8y ago

Hmm, it seems we need to have some discussions about civility in this country. It seems like people have become confused about its role and why its important. I guess it's easy to lose sight of that when the President goes around calling people childish nicknames.

kazagistar 8y ago

Pollution is a personal choice? Maybe people figured out that "personal choice" wad being used as a shield to freely destroy and exploit commons.

farisjarrah 8y ago

I think that this is a bit of a fallacy, ever so slightly akin to the ideology behind "Make America Great Again". When was this fabled time where everyone was civil to each other? Does the popular usage of Mr./Mrs. really mean we are being civil? People may have called each other Mr. and Mrs. in the 50's but many people were also extremely judgemental based on religious choices, many people were racist, sexist, etc etc.... I am not really buying this argument. People have always been civil and people have always been bad to each other. One really need to just judge peoples emotional maturity on a case by case basis.

astura 8y ago

It's really ok and not at all "disrespectful" for a company's chief culture officer/cofounder to remind a company PR Rep (and subordinate) to be mindful to display company ethos while at work. She's a PR Rep, her job is literately to represent the company. When did we become so self centered that we think we can behave however we please while at work under the guise of "it's just a personal choice, man" and any reprimanding of not following company policies is automatically considered "disrespectful?"

pjc50 8y ago

> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? It always has been, surely? But for a different set of things than mere consumer choice.

peteretep 8y ago

> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? When people started having personal choices that affected the people around them. So: since always.

notacoward 8y ago
I think you're answering a different question than was asked. When did it become acceptable to politely suggest a different personal choice? Since always, as you say. When did it become acceptable to disrespect them for a personal choice? Pretty recently, and should have been never. That includes the personal choice to rationalize that kind of condescending priggishness online. What kind of person gets their jollies that way? Those who live by the sword, and all that. Maybe it would be better if we could all express the same ideas in more respectful and collaborative ways, at least to start with.
- geofft 8y ago
  The article doesn't have enough detail to conclude whether "admonished" meant politely or with disrespect.
  - burger_moon 8y ago
    In what situation would you walk up to a stranger and tell them to be mindful of themselves for carrying a plastic water bottle and it's not disrespectful. Mind your own business maybe?
    - mithr 8y ago
      > In what situation would you walk up to a stranger Walking up to a stranger is one thing, but that really wasn't the case here... in this case, a comment was made to company-appointed P.R. representative who was present at a meeting with a journalist who was there to write about the company, its values, and its culture. I think the founder of the company commenting on the same company's P.R. person not adhering to the company's values is very much him "minding his own business".

peterwwillis 8y ago

Back in the 1960s, if you were black and seated at a lunch counter, a white person would spit in your face. Which was considered perfectly civil for a lot of white people. In some cultures, at various times (including today), the civil thing to do is to berate and even beat a woman if she appears in public without covering her hair or face. To the guy in the story, telling someone to not use the plastic water bottle was the civil thing to do. Civility has always been subjective.

BucketSort 8y ago
Those were not civil actions for civilly minded people. Of course, people loathe each other behind closed doors and the less respectable people bring it out in public. Let me ask you this, would such an interaction as described in the OP comment happen in Japan? They seem to understand the importance of respect.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  They’ve also gotten very adept at showing disrespect without seeming to.
- brazzledazzle 8y ago
  Some of that’s politeness, face and collective harmony though. You can be disrespected politely.
  - BucketSort 8y ago
    The idea is that there's a time and a place. If you are interviewing someone, you are there for an interview. It isn't a personal interaction. You are there to do a job. Why transform it from a formal engagement to a personal matter? We should respect the civil barrier.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  "Seem to" Japan has nasty edges, just like every other country.
- 8y ago

dragonwriter 8y ago

> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? That time is lost in the mists of history, though which choices this is acceptable for have been different in different times and places.

BucketSort 8y ago
Yeah, I guess I should have said "mainstream personal choices." If one does something deviant, politeness has typically always gone out the window. These days people pick fights just so they can put themselves in some virtuous light. It's really annoying.
- pjc50 8y ago
  These are defined the other way round: "mainstream" is the set of things people accept, and "deviant" is what they call things they don't.
  - notacoward 8y ago
    A peer comment to yours nicely illustrates the point. Everyone wants to appropriate "mainstream" for themselves, even as they also want to be recognized as the vanguard of whatever movement they are (transiently) promoting.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  No, these days behaviors which you remember being unquestionably mainstream are now on the disputed boundary where some substantial number of people see them as deviant.

dsr_ 8y ago

People used to be polite to each other as long as they were the right people, but being polite to the wrong people became a sin called "political correctness".

RodericDay 8y ago
Being not racist? Political correctness. Your face melting off when someone doesn't stand for the anthem? ????????? Saying some black guy attacked by a cop deserved it for being impolite to the pig? ?????????????????

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

scottlegrand2 8y ago

May I suggest listening to "National Brotherhood Week" by Tom Lehrer? https://youtu.be/aIlJ8ZCs4jY https://youtu.be/aIlJ8ZCs4jY