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Full text archived here: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=alt.language.artificial/ZL4e3fD7eW0/_7p8bKwLJWkJ https://groups.google.com/forum/messag

Full text archived here: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=alt.language.artificial/ZL4e3fD7eW0/_7p8bKwLJWkJ https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=alt.language... "coalstuff" always makes me smile a bit because it is the literal etymology of "carbon".

tigerlily 8y ago
In the Dutch language, carbon and nitrogen are referred to as koolstof (coalstuff) and stikstof (chokestuff), respectively.
- romwell 8y ago
  Kool stuff!
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  I'm confused by the "stuff" suffix in English though; the Dutch "stof" can also be translated as "dust" or "matter". Matter probably has origins in French or Latin or something though.
FabHK 8y ago
Just as "waterstuff" ("Wasserstoff" in German) for "hydrogen" ("hudro" = water), and "sourstuff" ("Sauerstoff" in German) for "oxygen" ("oxys" = "sharp, acid"). Anyway. Also, "airplane' = "Flugzeug" in German = "Flying stuff". This is fun, actually. Flystuffs are outsending so much coaltwosourstuff that it is enharming the vapourball.
- mc32 8y ago
  Huh, I always had thought ‘zeug’ was ‘thing’ rather than ‘stuff’ (quantifiable vs. unquantifiable). (lighter, toy, plane, etc.) But... it looks like I’m wrong and most of the time it refers to ‘stuff’.
  - FabHK 8y ago
    Hmm, "Zeug" is uncountable and without plural (like "stuff"), while "Ding" is countable and has a plural (like "thing"). I think I've seen "Flugzeug" rendered as "Flything", but "Flystuff" feels closer.
  - atombender 8y ago
    "Zeug" makes more sense if you think of it as the English "gear" -- tools and equipment, the original etymology -- which is also uncountable. "Thing" isn't entirely wrong, but it's specifically a thing that is some sort of device that has utility. A Flugzeug can be thought or as flying equipment, Fahrzeug is driving equipment, and so on. In Norwegian and Danish you'll have -tøy/-tøj words that came from Germanic via Old Norse: "fartøy" (vehicle or boat, as in "Fahrzeug"), "leketøy/legetøj" (toy; literally play-thing). "Zeug" (or rather, its proto-Germanic ancestor) survives in English as "toy", funnily enough.
    - kuerbel 8y ago
      Thank you, now I don't have to explain it haha. I just want to add that in medieval times Zeug was also used to refer to arms and armor. Some cities still have a Zeughaus, nowadays usually a museum for plate armor etc. The pejorative connotation wasn't there back then.
      - bhaak 8y ago
        In Switzerland the term "Zeughaus" is still in use as the official term for an arsenal or armory.
    - FearNotDaniel 8y ago
      Not to mention "lekking", which still means "playing" in parts of northern England.
    - Tistron 8y ago
      In Swedish we also have "-tyg" and "-don" which is similar. So we have far-tyg for faring-stuff on water, and for-don for faring-stuff on land. Tyg on itself is fabric, like "stoff" is in German or Danish (in Danish stof is also drugs or matter in general).
- lordnacho 8y ago
  In Danish nitrogen is "Kvælstof", or "Strangling stuff". From German: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stickstoff#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stickstoff#German I'm guessing because Nitrogen gas will kill a flame?
  - kryptiskt 8y ago
    Swedish optimizes that and leave out the "stuff", so we have "syre" and "kväve".
  - PavlikPaja 8y ago
    When you breath pure nitrogen, you suffocate without really noticing anything.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      There have been suggestions that nitrogen could be used as a means of execution: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11495658/Michael-Portillo-inspires-Oklahoma-to-consider-execution-by-nitrogen.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/... [NB Personally, I'm not in favour of executing anyone, but if you must do it why not do it so that it doesn't cause any suffering?]
  - seszett 8y ago
    In French it's azote, meaning lifeless. I think many languages use a variation of this (based on the Greek roots) as well.
- AnthonBerg 8y ago
  A 100% literal one-to-one translation yields a passage in Icelandic which would be considered good Icelandic: Flugvélar gefa frá sér svo mikinn koltvísýring að það skaðar gufuhvolfið. “Vél” (machine) has an amazing history. It’s from the same roots as wheel, wile (as in cunning), and will. And some other proto-indo-european words that carry connotations of prophecy and bending the world to one’s will through divination and cunning and guile, and consecrating it to holiness. You know, with machines. Vélar. Crafted from thought and understanding of the deeper layers of the world. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A9l#Etymology_2 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A9l#Etymology_2
  - pjc50 8y ago
    My favourite one of those is https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/t%C3%B6lva https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/t%C3%B6lva : computer, from "number-witch". Referenced in the game Signal From Tolva, and the essay "Hexing the Technical Interview".
- eecc 8y ago
  Dutch for airplane is "vliegtuig", composed of "vlieg(en)" to fly, and "tuig" rig, gear which is reasonably a synecdoche for "machine". Interesting... I'm constantly frustrated by the diffuse ignorance of etymology, knowing where words - used to represent and describe - come from provides a surprisingly pleasant depth to everyday life.
- SilasX 8y ago
  I wish German used Sonnestoff (sunstuff) for helium, Geldstoff (moneystuff) for gold, and Salzstoff (saltstuff) for sodium. Also I think I heard that German-speaking "Pennsylvania Dutch" speakers in the US independently started calling an airplane a Flugschiff (flyship) when they first started seeing them.
  - FabHK 8y ago
    That would make a lot of sense. "Sonnenstoff", with an extra "n", probably; it rolls of the tongue more easily. Zeppelins are also called "Luftschiff", airship (giving rise to the usual German concatenations such as "Luftschiffahrtsmuseum" (airship transport museum)).
interfixus 8y ago
Carbon is actually kulstof in Danish, a language Anderson was thoroughly familiar with.
ThePadawan 8y ago
As a German ESL student, I found it hard to believe that "foodstuff" and its plural was a genuine expression and not a prank. Seems so much more German than Lebensmittel is ("Survival/Life tool/gear").
- no_identd 8y ago
  "Lebensmittel" more represents something like "Life implement" or "means of life". Edit: Conceptually it maps almost exactly to Latin "nutrimentum", and hence, English "nourishment". As such, I supposed we could construct some neo-latin from it to more closely approximate it, such as vitimentum or rather vitalimentum - but if you look closely at vitalimentum, you'll notice it contains "alimentum" as a substring, and, well: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aliment#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aliment#Etymology
  - Freak_NL 8y ago
    Or just use victualia (from late Latin), which appears to be derived from victus (nourishment) and vīvō (live, survive). In English this corresponds to victuals, and in German Viktualien of course¹. 1: E.g., as used in the name of Munich's Viktualienmarkt market square.
- andrewem 8y ago
  Have you come across the word "nutmeat", meaning the edible part of a nut? It's from two words with Germanic roots and thus might give you a similar feeling. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nutmeat https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nutmeat
  - ThePadawan 8y ago
    Now, I hadn't, and wow!
- LiquidInsect 8y ago
  Conversely, I felt the same way about "flugzeug", "spielzeug", "werkzeug" etc.
jvanloov 8y ago
"The worldken of this behaving, in all its manifold ways, is called minglingken." Funny, the Dutch word for chemistry is "scheikunde", which would be more like "breakupken" ("scheiden" = to separate). Although I think "minglingken" sounds better...

tigerlily 8y ago

In the Dutch language, carbon and nitrogen are referred to as koolstof (coalstuff) and stikstof (chokestuff), respectively.

romwell 8y ago
Kool stuff!
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
I'm confused by the "stuff" suffix in English though; the Dutch "stof" can also be translated as "dust" or "matter". Matter probably has origins in French or Latin or something though.

FabHK 8y ago

Just as "waterstuff" ("Wasserstoff" in German) for "hydrogen" ("hudro" = water), and "sourstuff" ("Sauerstoff" in German) for "oxygen" ("oxys" = "sharp, acid"). Anyway. Also, "airplane' = "Flugzeug" in German = "Flying stuff". This is fun, actually. Flystuffs are outsending so much coaltwosourstuff that it is enharming the vapourball.

mc32 8y ago
Huh, I always had thought ‘zeug’ was ‘thing’ rather than ‘stuff’ (quantifiable vs. unquantifiable). (lighter, toy, plane, etc.) But... it looks like I’m wrong and most of the time it refers to ‘stuff’.
- FabHK 8y ago
  Hmm, "Zeug" is uncountable and without plural (like "stuff"), while "Ding" is countable and has a plural (like "thing"). I think I've seen "Flugzeug" rendered as "Flything", but "Flystuff" feels closer.
- atombender 8y ago
  "Zeug" makes more sense if you think of it as the English "gear" -- tools and equipment, the original etymology -- which is also uncountable. "Thing" isn't entirely wrong, but it's specifically a thing that is some sort of device that has utility. A Flugzeug can be thought or as flying equipment, Fahrzeug is driving equipment, and so on. In Norwegian and Danish you'll have -tøy/-tøj words that came from Germanic via Old Norse: "fartøy" (vehicle or boat, as in "Fahrzeug"), "leketøy/legetøj" (toy; literally play-thing). "Zeug" (or rather, its proto-Germanic ancestor) survives in English as "toy", funnily enough.
  - kuerbel 8y ago
    Thank you, now I don't have to explain it haha. I just want to add that in medieval times Zeug was also used to refer to arms and armor. Some cities still have a Zeughaus, nowadays usually a museum for plate armor etc. The pejorative connotation wasn't there back then.
    - bhaak 8y ago
      In Switzerland the term "Zeughaus" is still in use as the official term for an arsenal or armory.
  - FearNotDaniel 8y ago
    Not to mention "lekking", which still means "playing" in parts of northern England.
  - Tistron 8y ago
    In Swedish we also have "-tyg" and "-don" which is similar. So we have far-tyg for faring-stuff on water, and for-don for faring-stuff on land. Tyg on itself is fabric, like "stoff" is in German or Danish (in Danish stof is also drugs or matter in general).
lordnacho 8y ago
In Danish nitrogen is "Kvælstof", or "Strangling stuff". From German: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stickstoff#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stickstoff#German I'm guessing because Nitrogen gas will kill a flame?
- kryptiskt 8y ago
  Swedish optimizes that and leave out the "stuff", so we have "syre" and "kväve".
- PavlikPaja 8y ago
  When you breath pure nitrogen, you suffocate without really noticing anything.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    There have been suggestions that nitrogen could be used as a means of execution: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11495658/Michael-Portillo-inspires-Oklahoma-to-consider-execution-by-nitrogen.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/... [NB Personally, I'm not in favour of executing anyone, but if you must do it why not do it so that it doesn't cause any suffering?]
- seszett 8y ago
  In French it's azote, meaning lifeless. I think many languages use a variation of this (based on the Greek roots) as well.
AnthonBerg 8y ago
A 100% literal one-to-one translation yields a passage in Icelandic which would be considered good Icelandic: Flugvélar gefa frá sér svo mikinn koltvísýring að það skaðar gufuhvolfið. “Vél” (machine) has an amazing history. It’s from the same roots as wheel, wile (as in cunning), and will. And some other proto-indo-european words that carry connotations of prophecy and bending the world to one’s will through divination and cunning and guile, and consecrating it to holiness. You know, with machines. Vélar. Crafted from thought and understanding of the deeper layers of the world. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A9l#Etymology_2 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A9l#Etymology_2
- pjc50 8y ago
  My favourite one of those is https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/t%C3%B6lva https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/t%C3%B6lva : computer, from "number-witch". Referenced in the game Signal From Tolva, and the essay "Hexing the Technical Interview".
eecc 8y ago
Dutch for airplane is "vliegtuig", composed of "vlieg(en)" to fly, and "tuig" rig, gear which is reasonably a synecdoche for "machine". Interesting... I'm constantly frustrated by the diffuse ignorance of etymology, knowing where words - used to represent and describe - come from provides a surprisingly pleasant depth to everyday life.
SilasX 8y ago
I wish German used Sonnestoff (sunstuff) for helium, Geldstoff (moneystuff) for gold, and Salzstoff (saltstuff) for sodium. Also I think I heard that German-speaking "Pennsylvania Dutch" speakers in the US independently started calling an airplane a Flugschiff (flyship) when they first started seeing them.
- FabHK 8y ago
  That would make a lot of sense. "Sonnenstoff", with an extra "n", probably; it rolls of the tongue more easily. Zeppelins are also called "Luftschiff", airship (giving rise to the usual German concatenations such as "Luftschiffahrtsmuseum" (airship transport museum)).

interfixus 8y ago

Carbon is actually kulstof in Danish, a language Anderson was thoroughly familiar with.

ThePadawan 8y ago

As a German ESL student, I found it hard to believe that "foodstuff" and its plural was a genuine expression and not a prank. Seems so much more German than Lebensmittel is ("Survival/Life tool/gear").

no_identd 8y ago
"Lebensmittel" more represents something like "Life implement" or "means of life". Edit: Conceptually it maps almost exactly to Latin "nutrimentum", and hence, English "nourishment". As such, I supposed we could construct some neo-latin from it to more closely approximate it, such as vitimentum or rather vitalimentum - but if you look closely at vitalimentum, you'll notice it contains "alimentum" as a substring, and, well: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aliment#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aliment#Etymology
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  Or just use victualia (from late Latin), which appears to be derived from victus (nourishment) and vīvō (live, survive). In English this corresponds to victuals, and in German Viktualien of course¹. 1: E.g., as used in the name of Munich's Viktualienmarkt market square.
andrewem 8y ago
Have you come across the word "nutmeat", meaning the edible part of a nut? It's from two words with Germanic roots and thus might give you a similar feeling. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nutmeat https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nutmeat
- ThePadawan 8y ago
  Now, I hadn't, and wow!
LiquidInsect 8y ago
Conversely, I felt the same way about "flugzeug", "spielzeug", "werkzeug" etc.

jvanloov 8y ago

"The worldken of this behaving, in all its manifold ways, is called minglingken." Funny, the Dutch word for chemistry is "scheikunde", which would be more like "breakupken" ("scheiden" = to separate). Although I think "minglingken" sounds better...