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Beware of Buying Young People's Blood to Prevent Aging, FDA Says
- gotocake 8y agoProof if it were needed that money can’t buy you brains. Making the leap from rodent models where a juvenile and elderly rodent shared a circulatory system to transfusions is so breathtaking in its lack of basic sense that you have to wonder how these guys made it in tech to begin with. Never mind that we’re not rodents, and if we were we’d already be immortal with all we’ve cured mice of. Never mind the morality or risks, just focus on the stupidity of equivocating a pint of “young blood” with hooking your circulatory system to another organism! Is it really shocking that cadging the use of a young endocrine system, kidneys, lungs etc might help an older organism? No. Is it shocking that supposedly intelligent people have managed to conflate that with a transfusion? Yes!
- Hasz 8y agoI think you've been downvoted for conflating "good idea" with "good product". There's plenty of polished turds, that, marketed appropriately, will make their promoters and founders millions. I agree with you though -- the leaps here are tremendous, and likely unfounded.
- tomp 8y agoBut why not? It seems that blood donation is a well-established medical practice, so presumably safe... So for minimal risk, you get a low-probability chance of tremendous benefit (life extension). Sounds very worth it.
- gotocake 8y agoBlood transfusion comes with a host of risks which increase the more you do it. Call me old fashioned, but I’d like to save up for a time when my life depends on not having an infusion reaction! I’m also getting the sense that you’re not quite getting what I’m saying about the difference between getting a bag of blood from a teenager, and having your circulatory system grafted onto a teenager. Even leaving aside the “we’re not mice” issue, you do see the difference not only in scale, but type right? Please say yes...
- gscott 8y ago> having your circulatory system grafted onto a teenager. College students need money and spring break is a good time to be grafted onto an old rich guy for a week.
- stickfigure 8y agoI'm mentally adjusting the applicability of Poe's Law to @awakeasleep's above comment: It's typically a blood plasma internship, done for exposure to the wealthy clients.
- buboard 8y agomakes one wonder. what is the cost of a grafted teenager?
- tomp 8y agoSure, but that's just you. Personally, I definitely support people electing to do experimental treatments on themselves, as long as there's sufficient oversight. Especially people who are close to dying anyways (e.g. maybe not at 35, maybe yes at 95). Not sure what you're getting at with transfusion vs. circulatory system... I see 3 options: (1) works in mice but not in humans, (2) works in humans with just blood, (3) works in humans but needs more than blood (either whole "young circulatory system" or just parts of it, e.g. hormones etc.). So, you might be willing to experiment that (2) holds. I mean, if you're opposed to this, if you're certain it's immoral, wouldn't you also be opposed to any trials as well? After all, this is similar to a trial... Sure, it doesn't have as much value to the society, as it's not blind randomized, but it might still have tremendous value to an individual.
- Junk_Collector 8y ago"Not sure what you're getting at with transfusion vs. circulatory system" Because having a graft like they did to the mice is closer to the equivalent of a new kidney, liver, lung, and pancreas transplant than it is to a blood transfusion. The original experiment is no where near close to what is being sold and there are no controlled trials that show a "young blood" transfusion provides benefit.
- Junk_Collector 8y agoBlood transfusion has a number of significant risks, just not in comparison to the cases where it is employed. From the FDA, "The more common risks are allergic reactions and transfusion associated circulatory overload and less common risks include transfusion related acute lung injury or transfusion associated circulatory overload and infectious disease transmission." A Sense of impending doom is a side effect of an incompatible blood transfusion and is typically followed by death. These companies are also mostly fly by night "move fast and break things" motto companies that do not undergo rigorous medical evaluations. A large part of the FDAs concern in their official statement is that these companies are not conducting clinical trials.
- devwastaken 8y ago"why not" is always a good way of killing people. If you don't know why and how, you don't know it's effects. The whole 'well it won't kill you' mentality of false medicine ends up prolonging the time, if ever, of a person getting real treatments. This is an infectious mentality, not just one individuals choice for themselves.
- notahacker 8y agoAnother way of framing it is that by regularly accepting a low but non-zero risk of very serious consequences of blood transfusion, you get a possibility of magic happening which currently exists in the realm of conjecture. Not to mention that some people have established medical needs for plasma donations and the number of donors is not unlimited...
- daveFNbuck 8y agoWell-established medical practices aren't necessarily safe, they just have benefits that tend to outweigh the risks in normal use. When there are no established benefits, even a small risk is too much.
- SilasX 8y ago>When there are no established benefits, even a small risk is too much. Then how are you ever supposed to establish the benefits in the first place?
- daveFNbuck 8y agoThrough the same scientific processes we use for to verify all medicine and medicinal procedures. You don't establish benefits by selling it to the public.
- SilasX 8y agoYes, but that would still be disallowed under the claim that “even a small risk is too much”, hence my point :-p
- daveFNbuck 8y agoI was saying this in the context of offering a treatment to the general public. That's very different from a clinical trial, where there are benefits beyond the immediate effects on the patient that help to justify the individual risk. The benefits of scientific studies on medical treatments are well-established. Even if you think you can find some weird corner case where this doesn't apply, do you disagree with the general principle that benefits should outweigh risks for medical procedures?
- DoreenMichele 8y agoAside from very real medical concerns being covered in other comments, donors are typically anonymous. So I would be extremely leery of claims that it's from "young people" to begin with. Blood intended to save your life makes no unverifiable claims about the age of the donor. They are pretty strict about who can give blood, but this is not per se a pertinent metric normally.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago> But why not? It seems that blood donation is a well-established medical practice, so presumably safe. It's safer than bleeding out and dying. That doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% risk free.
- Junk_Collector 8y agoThe only thing that advances faster than science is the rate at which psuedo-science co-opts it to sell people snake oil.
- GreeniFi 8y agoBusiness idea: wooden stakes for sale!!! I’ll make a killing. Call me old fashioned, but I can’t believe this is a thing.
- prolepunk 8y agoNo matter how many times I read this headline I can't make it not sound like it came straight from some kind of dickenzian vampire movie with this soundrack -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5uqVdCvnA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5uqVdCvnA
- minikites 8y agoPeter Thiel is going to be disappointed. https://www.inc.com/jeff-bercovici/peter-thiel-young-blood.html https://www.inc.com/jeff-bercovici/peter-thiel-young-blood.h... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to-inject-himself-with-young-peoples-blood https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to...
- bitxbitxbitcoin 8y agoFret not. He can invest in something else to cure that disappointment.
- whsksrsz 8y agoPerhaps harvesting the sense of hope and wonder from youths and mainlining it once a week could help!
- Junk_Collector 8y agoIt has really come down to this. The FDA has to warn people that it is a bad idea to inject yourselves with other peoples blood. I like the idea though. For centuries we've had motif's of the "evil queen" bathing in the blood of innocents to rejuvenate herself. Now in modern times we can move past the idea of wealthy elderly capitalistic vampires sucking the youth out of people indirectly to becoming literal vampires sucking the life out of the young directly.
- bdamm 8y agoAs a once-young person I would not have had any problem selling my blood a pint at a time to help an elderly person feel rejuvenated, assuming that it worked and I was being paid for it. After all, I often gave away my blood for free, and go nothing in return except some juice, cookies, and a smile.
- prolepunk 8y agoWealthy elderly capitalistic vampires don't seem appreciate this comment.
- leothekim 8y agoFormal statement from the FDA: https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm631568.htm https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/u...
- moate 8y agoLink currently broken (from their side)
- DoreenMichele 8y agoWorks just fine for me.
- bytematic 8y agoI feel like this headline could be from any century
- bitxbitxbitcoin 8y agoOr from any country - such as Transylvania.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoLOL I thought this was a crazy imagined thing for Gavin Belson. So I guess the SV thing was a satire of real life already?
- ladybro 8y agohttps://gizmodo.com/peter-thiel-goes-on-the-record-about-injections-of-youn-1830165868 https://gizmodo.com/peter-thiel-goes-on-the-record-about-inj...
- warp_factor 8y agoI would be scared to inject myself with someone else's blood without science fully understanding what is going on yet.
- whatshisface 8y agoIf you had dementia you would be even more scared. That's why quack medicine can survive in a world where rational information is available, it is terrifying to die.
- jklinger410 8y agoThe FDA is still on the fence about Marijuana, if that gives you any idea of where they are at on new technologies and drugs.
- komali2 8y agoSure, but let's leave the FDA out of the picture for a second: 1. How much evidence is there that Marijuana is an effective treatment for certain diseases? How much evidence is there that Marijuana is harmful? 2. How much evidence is there that infusing young people's plasma into your blood treats any illnesses? How much evidence is there of risks associated with infusing plasma? We don't need to include the FDA to take a look at how silly the idea is.
- jklinger410 8y agoMy comment is made to combat the tone of this thread that somehow an FDA warning is the same thing as negative proof. The FDA is famously restricted by the Feds, often leaving them decades behind. This is like an OSHA type warning telling you not to inject plasma into yourself like an idiot.
- joejerryronnie 8y agoIn college, I’m pretty certain I infused marijuana into my bloodstream for four straight years. The resultant life extension is still to be determined.
- 8y ago
- moate 8y agoI feel like this is missing the part where the FDA just shut down Ambrosia. Check out their site. It's just a note "In compliance with the FDA announcement issued February 19, 2019, we have ceased patient treatments." https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com/ https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com/
- therealforsen 8y agoThat's creepy to associate young people's blood plasma with nectar of the gods.
- wincy 8y agoWell the nectar of the gods made you immortal if you ate/drank it, right? So it seems appropriate considering what they purported to be selling.
- CharlesColeman 8y ago> So it seems appropriate considering what they purported to be selling. Or inappropriate false advertising...
- wincy 8y agoHence the word purported and not “are selling”. We’re in agreement here, sounds like snake oil to me.
- buboard 8y agooh wow indeed this seems more important. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/aging/young-blood-company-ambrosia-halts-patient-treatments-after-fda-warning-n973266 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/aging/young-blood-company-amb... they re probably not the only ones shutting down
- youeeeeeediot 8y ago> sells one liter of blood plasma from donors between the ages of 16 and 25 for $8,000, according to its website. I would be very curious to know what they typically paid the donor in that transaction.
- awakeasleep 8y agoIt's typically a blood plasma internship, done for exposure to the wealthy clients.
- kbenson 8y agoPoe's law is so strong with this comment, I have no idea what to believe.
- dx87 8y agoProbably not a ton. I used to donate plasma every Friday for some beer money. I'd normally get 15-30 dollars. That number was higher than most as well, because I got paid extra due to receiving various vaccinations in the military.
- glitcher 8y agoYet another example of reality making it very difficult for organizations like the Onion.
- anonytrary 8y agoYou had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
- e12e 8y agoAs far as I can tell, Bloomberg didn't actually link to an official statement, but the Verge did: https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm631568.htm https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/u...
- pkaye 8y agoAlso I think if you ever need a kidney transplants, all the antibodies in your system from blood transfusions may make it hard to find a match.
- edoo 8y agoHaving to vet the source of the children's blood you vampire like transfuse yourself with sounds like a billionaire problem.
- lurkertroll 8y agoI wonder if I can sell my middle aged blood at a discount
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- danilocesar 8y agoSounds like 2019 tech vampires...
- jotm 8y agoHey, stop putting blood boys out of their jobs!
- CommieBobDole 8y agoThe statement says that there's no clinically-proven benefits. Have there been any clinical studies?
- floatboth 8y agoFDA subtweeting Larry Ellison here
- newyankee 8y agothis reads like an onion article but the skeptic in me suggests the rich know something we do not.
- killjoywashere 8y agoAs the medical director of a blood bank and donor center that produces plasma, please do not taint the public's perception of the blood supply with misuses like this. We have a hard enough time ensuring sufficient donors without calling into question our disposition of their generous donations. We do not condone this sort of use. If you think this is abstract, I am about to send an email to my surgical colleagues because we'll be out of the most precious donation tonight at midnight: platelets. You tighten the donor pool at all, and you will make platelet donations exponentially harder. I can't overemphasize the risk this misuse of blood products represents to healthcare systems around the world. This is an anti-vax movement waiting to happen: "Billionaires looking for a fountain of youth get blood transfusions from young bucks? WTF?" blends easily into "Why should I donate blood if they're just going to sell it to billionaires?" This would be catastrophic for trauma resuscitation, surgeries of all kinds, and a variety of medical patients. There should be severe penalties for soliciting service like this. Imagine if solid organ transplants were handled in the same way: "Young man, as a new intern, I'll give you a percentage of my Facebook stock in exchange for a kidney..." The next problem: it will only take one high-profile transfusion reaction to crater the public trust. If the biology nerds in the audience want to distract you with fancy talk about the low risk of certain molecular things happening because "it's just plasma", skip it. Simple, mechanical transfusion-associated circulatory overload is plenty enough to kill an old guy with stiff arteries and hypertension. And the worst part is the lack of science being used to drive a supply chain decision that's highly science-dependent. This is so ethically corrupt I don't even know where to begin. The FDA's statement pales in comparison to what I'm sure the inspectors are actually feeling right now. Please, if you know someone soliciting this kind of transfusion (recipient or physician), encourage them to read the FDA statement.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- insertnickname 8y agoGiven the lack of blood donors, what is your personal stance on paying people to donate blood to blood banks? (to be used strictly for "trauma resuscitation, surgeries of all kinds, and a variety of medical patients", not for voodoo science anti-aging treatments)