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Between the cost of daycare, health care/insurance, pet care, car payments and maintenance, student loan payments, and then a mortgage (even a cheap mortgage) o

Between the cost of daycare, health care/insurance, pet care, car payments and maintenance, student loan payments, and then a mortgage (even a cheap mortgage) on top of that, not to mention saving something for retirement, forget the 10x your salary by the time you retire or whatever, and once every 2-3 years go on a vacation at least to the next state over, I do sometimes wonder how households can make ends meet on less than $100k a year, and have no idea how a household can get by on the average $60k a year. I know living in certain areas are a lot cheaper, but the salaries are usually a lot lower in those areas as well. Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) or other life events. We make more than that, have no children, and we're still shuffling money around to make it all work. I can't wait to finally pay off my student loans in a couple of years. My fiancee might never get hers paid off, she's barely making a dent in hers.

EpicEng 8y ago
>Between the cost of daycare, health care/insurance, pet care, car payments and maintenance, student loan payments, and then a mortgage (even a cheap mortgage) on top of that, not to mention saving something for retirement, forget the 10x your salary by the time you retire or whatever, and once every 2-3 years go on a vacation at least to the next state over, I do sometimes wonder how households can make ends meet on less than $100k a year, and have no idea how a household can get by on the average $60k a year. You list a bunch of optional things here as if they are some human right. Pet costs? Don't own a pet. Car payments? Do you think people struggling to make ends meet should be spending $250+ / month on a car? Buy a 20 year old Civic. Mortgage? Families making a combined $60k rent. Student loans? Why are they making so little with their degree? Poor choice? I doubt most families making $60k are paying off student loans. >Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) or other life events. Well that's just dumb. Families making $60k don't (shouldn't) kick things off with a lavish wedding. >We make more than that, have no children, and we're still shuffling money around to make it all work. I admit that I'm assuming a lot here, but if you two can't make things work on a six figure income I don't know, sounds like you're throwing away a lot of money on luxuries. To me you come off as if you assume all of these luxuries are how everyone does/should live, and that's simply not the case.
agensaequivocum 8y ago
> I do sometimes wonder how households can make ends meet on less than $100k a year, and have no idea how a household can get by on the average $60k a year. I know many families who make under 100k, have 7+ children and do just fine. There are lots of hand-me-downs and thrift store shopping. This is all fine. > Between the cost of daycare... Most tend to Homeschool so no daycare is needed. >not to mention saving something for retirement, forget the 10x your salary by the time you retire or whatever One of the benefits of having many well raised children, they take care of you during this time. > and once every 2-3 years go on a vacation at least to the next state over This is non-necessary. > Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) or other life events. My wife and I got married (not including the honeymoon) for about $5k with 200 guests. Cheap weddings are doable.
heydonovan 8y ago
As someone who has come from poverty, it still blows my mind that folks who make more than $70k struggle at all. A few of the things you mentioned are strictly luxuries. College, pets, new cars, vacations are all put on the back burner until it's financially reasonable to do so. I've met many folks making more than $100k who are in more debt than someone making $40k. Just ignorant of finances.
- cableshaft 8y ago
  Making more money means more people will be willing to give you the rope to hang yourself with. People aren't as willing to lend money to people who don't have a means to pay it back, but someone can be doing well, take out a decent amount of debt ("buy" a car, "buy" a house, take out loans for education, etc), suffer a health or career setback, long periods of unemployment, and it starts a debt that spirals out of control. I went through a period of near poverty myself (seriously considered declaring bankruptcy a couple of times), and it seemed like the first year or two of any new job I had was just digging myself out of the hole from last time (only to get laid off right as I was starting to get back to a 'normal' amount of debt, and thus be forced to dig myself back deep into debt while I made the next job work). It can be a vicious cycle. I'm finally free of it, but if I was forced not to work for six months or so due to a health issue I could very easily be back in the midst of it again.
  - heydonovan 8y ago
    Makes sense! Currently going through this right now. Got laid off, have maxed out all my credit cards, and spend my days studying for additional certs or spamming LinkedIn/Indeed/Angel. Nest egg is completely gone, and at this point, might just start applying for minimum wage jobs just to get some form of income coming in. That also means less time focusing on studies and applying for jobs, so it's a lose lose.
    - cableshaft 8y ago
      Sorry you're going through that right now. I've been in a similar situation. It can be really stressful and seems to take forever to get out of that hole. If you have friends or family that want to help out, try not to be too proud and let them (at least as far as accepting free meals and whatnot). I always felt uncomfortable "mooching" off people, but it really helped me get through that period without being totally miserable. I never asked for it, but I did accept it when offered. As a side effect of what I went through, once I paid off my credit cards I have yet to take out another one (still haven't) years later, and I avoided taking on any new debt as much as possible. I was really hesitant to "buy" a house and bought one a lot later than I probably should have, and thus forewent years and years of building up equity (I only bought a house a year ago, and probably could have 5 or 6 years ago, in retrospect). It really screwed with my head, mentally.
adventured 8y ago
> Between the cost of daycare Children cost money, budget accordingly and have the income/s to support them or don't have them. That's a wildly unpopular statement in my experience because so few people like personal responsibility, and yet it's still the economic reality regardless. It's not asking much that people wait until they're financially stable to have children, or otherwise accept that they may not get to have everything they want at an early age. Costs and trade-offs. > health care/insurance Most full-time employed persons have their healthcare largely covered by their employer. Among everything you listed, health risks & costs are by far the big concern and are often not something you can easily control. > pet care That's a pretty easy choice. Stop having pets until you can soundly afford them. What's more important, pets or saving for children and housing? Car payment or pet? > car payments There are plenty of good used cars to be had for $12k to $16k. If you take care of them, they'll last a long time. > student loan payments Do not under any circumstances go to an out of state school, or in-state school, that costs $30k+ per year, unless you're going to have the income to afford it. There are a lot of quality state universities that are very affordable. > and then a mortgage A monthly mortgage payment at the median is no more expensive than renting. Where you take an economic beating, is inflation + property taxes + maintenance over time; in the form of real value capture destruction (net retaining ~$0.20-$0.30 on the dollar of what you put in). > wedding costs are insane Stop having $35,000 weddings. It's really not complicated. Down payment on the median $225,000 house, or have a $25k-$35k wedding. Skip the ridiculous wedding cost, spend $5,000 instead on a nice outdoor BBQ for 30-50 guests, keep the rest to throw at a down payment (or pet care if that's a greater priority). It's nothing more than economic sanity and understanding that you don't get to have everything you want, especially all at once.
weberc2 8y ago
I don't think it's crazy with some budgeting. These numbers seem pretty conservative for most parts of the country: Monthly take-home income (after health insurance, taxes, and 10% retirement): $6000 Rent/mortgage: $1200 Car payments: $750 Student loan minimum payments: $750 Shopping: $600 Groceries: $500 Savings: $250 Transport/auto maintenance: $200 Restaurants/bars: $200 Utilities: $200 Subscriptions: $100 Other insurance: $100 Haircuts/cosmetics/etc: $75 Pet care: $50 That leaves ~$1000 for paying down debt, saving for things like vacations, furniture upgrades, etc. I'm probably missing some things, but I'm also being pretty conservative with most categories. Many things will also vary by region. EDIT: Some updates to figures.
refurb 8y ago
Wedding costs are optional, you know that right? My wife and I spent under $1,000 for a nice, family focused wedding. Spending more than that if you don’t have the funds is nuts.
- simonsarris 8y ago
  Agree this is totally the way to go. We spent $15 and got married in town hall two months ago. Then made breakfast with family at home. The rings cost a little more though. If you count the gifts, which were not particularly numerous or substantial, we kind of made money on our wedding...
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
> Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) Then don't do it that way. You can get married in a back yard, or in a park. For a park, the venue might cost you $100; for a backyard, $0. You don't have to have a reception with a meal (schedule the wedding at 2 PM, with reception immediately after, so nobody expects a full meal). You don't need a stunning dress or a tux. I've been married over 28 years. The building we got married in has been torn down. I lost my original wedding ring. The developer lost the pictures from our honeymoon. The cake is long gone. But we're still here. It's not about the stuff around the day. Choose some balance between your desires and your desired budget, and call it good enough.

EpicEng 8y ago

>Between the cost of daycare, health care/insurance, pet care, car payments and maintenance, student loan payments, and then a mortgage (even a cheap mortgage) on top of that, not to mention saving something for retirement, forget the 10x your salary by the time you retire or whatever, and once every 2-3 years go on a vacation at least to the next state over, I do sometimes wonder how households can make ends meet on less than $100k a year, and have no idea how a household can get by on the average $60k a year. You list a bunch of optional things here as if they are some human right. Pet costs? Don't own a pet. Car payments? Do you think people struggling to make ends meet should be spending $250+ / month on a car? Buy a 20 year old Civic. Mortgage? Families making a combined $60k rent. Student loans? Why are they making so little with their degree? Poor choice? I doubt most families making $60k are paying off student loans. >Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) or other life events. Well that's just dumb. Families making $60k don't (shouldn't) kick things off with a lavish wedding. >We make more than that, have no children, and we're still shuffling money around to make it all work. I admit that I'm assuming a lot here, but if you two can't make things work on a six figure income I don't know, sounds like you're throwing away a lot of money on luxuries. To me you come off as if you assume all of these luxuries are how everyone does/should live, and that's simply not the case.

agensaequivocum 8y ago

> I do sometimes wonder how households can make ends meet on less than $100k a year, and have no idea how a household can get by on the average $60k a year. I know many families who make under 100k, have 7+ children and do just fine. There are lots of hand-me-downs and thrift store shopping. This is all fine. > Between the cost of daycare... Most tend to Homeschool so no daycare is needed. >not to mention saving something for retirement, forget the 10x your salary by the time you retire or whatever One of the benefits of having many well raised children, they take care of you during this time. > and once every 2-3 years go on a vacation at least to the next state over This is non-necessary. > Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) or other life events. My wife and I got married (not including the honeymoon) for about $5k with 200 guests. Cheap weddings are doable.

heydonovan 8y ago

As someone who has come from poverty, it still blows my mind that folks who make more than $70k struggle at all. A few of the things you mentioned are strictly luxuries. College, pets, new cars, vacations are all put on the back burner until it's financially reasonable to do so. I've met many folks making more than $100k who are in more debt than someone making $40k. Just ignorant of finances.

cableshaft 8y ago
Making more money means more people will be willing to give you the rope to hang yourself with. People aren't as willing to lend money to people who don't have a means to pay it back, but someone can be doing well, take out a decent amount of debt ("buy" a car, "buy" a house, take out loans for education, etc), suffer a health or career setback, long periods of unemployment, and it starts a debt that spirals out of control. I went through a period of near poverty myself (seriously considered declaring bankruptcy a couple of times), and it seemed like the first year or two of any new job I had was just digging myself out of the hole from last time (only to get laid off right as I was starting to get back to a 'normal' amount of debt, and thus be forced to dig myself back deep into debt while I made the next job work). It can be a vicious cycle. I'm finally free of it, but if I was forced not to work for six months or so due to a health issue I could very easily be back in the midst of it again.
- heydonovan 8y ago
  Makes sense! Currently going through this right now. Got laid off, have maxed out all my credit cards, and spend my days studying for additional certs or spamming LinkedIn/Indeed/Angel. Nest egg is completely gone, and at this point, might just start applying for minimum wage jobs just to get some form of income coming in. That also means less time focusing on studies and applying for jobs, so it's a lose lose.
  - cableshaft 8y ago
    Sorry you're going through that right now. I've been in a similar situation. It can be really stressful and seems to take forever to get out of that hole. If you have friends or family that want to help out, try not to be too proud and let them (at least as far as accepting free meals and whatnot). I always felt uncomfortable "mooching" off people, but it really helped me get through that period without being totally miserable. I never asked for it, but I did accept it when offered. As a side effect of what I went through, once I paid off my credit cards I have yet to take out another one (still haven't) years later, and I avoided taking on any new debt as much as possible. I was really hesitant to "buy" a house and bought one a lot later than I probably should have, and thus forewent years and years of building up equity (I only bought a house a year ago, and probably could have 5 or 6 years ago, in retrospect). It really screwed with my head, mentally.

adventured 8y ago

> Between the cost of daycare Children cost money, budget accordingly and have the income/s to support them or don't have them. That's a wildly unpopular statement in my experience because so few people like personal responsibility, and yet it's still the economic reality regardless. It's not asking much that people wait until they're financially stable to have children, or otherwise accept that they may not get to have everything they want at an early age. Costs and trade-offs. > health care/insurance Most full-time employed persons have their healthcare largely covered by their employer. Among everything you listed, health risks & costs are by far the big concern and are often not something you can easily control. > pet care That's a pretty easy choice. Stop having pets until you can soundly afford them. What's more important, pets or saving for children and housing? Car payment or pet? > car payments There are plenty of good used cars to be had for $12k to $16k. If you take care of them, they'll last a long time. > student loan payments Do not under any circumstances go to an out of state school, or in-state school, that costs $30k+ per year, unless you're going to have the income to afford it. There are a lot of quality state universities that are very affordable. > and then a mortgage A monthly mortgage payment at the median is no more expensive than renting. Where you take an economic beating, is inflation + property taxes + maintenance over time; in the form of real value capture destruction (net retaining ~$0.20-$0.30 on the dollar of what you put in). > wedding costs are insane Stop having $35,000 weddings. It's really not complicated. Down payment on the median $225,000 house, or have a $25k-$35k wedding. Skip the ridiculous wedding cost, spend $5,000 instead on a nice outdoor BBQ for 30-50 guests, keep the rest to throw at a down payment (or pet care if that's a greater priority). It's nothing more than economic sanity and understanding that you don't get to have everything you want, especially all at once.

weberc2 8y ago

I don't think it's crazy with some budgeting. These numbers seem pretty conservative for most parts of the country: Monthly take-home income (after health insurance, taxes, and 10% retirement): $6000 Rent/mortgage: $1200 Car payments: $750 Student loan minimum payments: $750 Shopping: $600 Groceries: $500 Savings: $250 Transport/auto maintenance: $200 Restaurants/bars: $200 Utilities: $200 Subscriptions: $100 Other insurance: $100 Haircuts/cosmetics/etc: $75 Pet care: $50 That leaves ~$1000 for paying down debt, saving for things like vacations, furniture upgrades, etc. I'm probably missing some things, but I'm also being pretty conservative with most categories. Many things will also vary by region. EDIT: Some updates to figures.

refurb 8y ago

Wedding costs are optional, you know that right? My wife and I spent under $1,000 for a nice, family focused wedding. Spending more than that if you don’t have the funds is nuts.

simonsarris 8y ago
Agree this is totally the way to go. We spent $15 and got married in town hall two months ago. Then made breakfast with family at home. The rings cost a little more though. If you count the gifts, which were not particularly numerous or substantial, we kind of made money on our wedding...

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

> Not to mention get married (wedding costs are insane, going through that right now) Then don't do it that way. You can get married in a back yard, or in a park. For a park, the venue might cost you $100; for a backyard, $0. You don't have to have a reception with a meal (schedule the wedding at 2 PM, with reception immediately after, so nobody expects a full meal). You don't need a stunning dress or a tux. I've been married over 28 years. The building we got married in has been torn down. I lost my original wedding ring. The developer lost the pictures from our honeymoon. The cake is long gone. But we're still here. It's not about the stuff around the day. Choose some balance between your desires and your desired budget, and call it good enough.