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I don't believe this is specific to software dev. I postulate that this feeling of yours is the route cause of what we call the midlife crisis. When you are yo

I don't believe this is specific to software dev. I postulate that this feeling of yours is the route cause of what we call the midlife crisis. When you are young, you have all the possibilities of what to do with your life. Methaphorically all the open doors of possibility. But as you progress with your life you have to make decisions about what do you want to do, and as you walk through some doors you close most other doors. For example by choosing to become a software dev, you most certainly wont become a doctor, lawyer, cook, house builder or truck driver, although all these options were open to you a couple of years back, now those doors are mostly closed. And it is this feeling of lost possibilities that you might be feeling.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Totally agree, and am inclined to agree it may be the root cause of many a midlife crisis. I could go back to uni, take on a ton of debt, and after retraining find few want a late fifties junior. Chances are I'd never pay off the student debts before retirement either, unless I get really lucky. A direct into the job route will probably meet just as much resistance to a mid fifties starter. Foreign Legion, Police and Air Force all think I'm too old now. That smell is from all those burnt bridges. Yet 40s and 50s are when many decide they've had enough and want something more fulfilling, find limited choice, and end up with a self employed micro business. I suspect this is not what they wished for in many cases, but just what's left.
- maigret 8y ago
  Interesting point of view, in most of Europe you'd not get in debt at all for that. Finding a job as a beginner would be as hard though. In the age of Internet though, it's never too hard to learn something new for free. Also, you can still try another occupation during the week-ends. You get to learn and experience something new while volunteering or making additional money, and after all you either see that your existing job is better, or that you want to make a change, being trained and knowledgeable of why you want to switch.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    I'm in the UK, so £27k for a three year degree, and cost of living and any commitments for the period. It becomes a huge gamble, even if you don't need to debt fund it, if you are coming back into the workplace with only 10 or 15 years to run. When I look at friends who got out of tech, which is now more of them than didn't, I see age taking away choices. Switch before 40s, a fully new career on the back of a degree or training to become whatever seems possible. Leave it later in 40s and 50s and it seems there's fewer choices and far more frustration around it, and the odd mid life crisis.
Ultimatt 8y ago
None of those doors are closed. Its just people become financially and time constrained. Usually by starting a family not by writing software.
- kabouseng 8y ago
  I didn't say they close because of writing software. They close because of living your life.
- MrGilbert 8y ago
  Well, some doors are closed forever. With 32, I'm too old to become a police officer in most states in my country, for instance.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Can only become a police officer if there is still time to indoctrinate you while you are impressionable? Clearly it’s not because of job requirements, since we have 50 year old officers...
    - Haga 8y ago
      Police work has a hidden deal. First 20 years you are shit posted, getting clubbered by Antifa and rightwingers on demonstrations or shot at in some ghetto. The rest of your time you get an office job to limp towards pension.
      - trophycase 8y ago
        Or just responding to domestic disputes all night.
    - cr0sh 8y ago
      I've sometimes thought about this in terms of being in the military, or what it would take for being involved in one of the "TLAs" - so to speak. At 45+ years of age, all of those doors are permanently closed to me. I do think that my thinking on them all is more that of the "romantic notions" of those careers; the reality of them is probably nowhere near as exciting, adventurous, or maybe even as worthwhile, as I might imagine them to have potentially been.
vonseel 8y ago
Having just turned 30, this resonates with me too well. Seeing it on paper helps a bit, but it still sucks. Along the lines of what others have said in this thread, I hate. Hate. Hate. Sitting at a desk for my job and staring into a little box. It just seems hysterical that we will likely spend most of our working lives staring at little boxes with lots of text and images on them. This isn’t the real world. It’s all just conjured up on a screen for profit and entertainment. Computers have taken over our lives and seem to be replacing even social interaction for some people. I’m sick of it. And as soon as you turn <device> off, it doesn’t F*ing matter anymore. I bet nearly every intellectual profession now is dominated by computer-based work. And it sucks because the old jobs - bakers, builders, mechanics, etc. - don’t pay nearly as much as the jobs that any 22 year old making shitty web apps with React can get paid. Am I flippant? Yes. Do I know where to go from here? Nope.
- SZJX 8y ago
  I don't think feeling the job "isn't real" is the actual underlying reason you hate your job. Most likely you're a bit burnt out or having a mid-life symptom. By your definition is baking real, since it uses all sorts of processed agricultural products and sophisticated machinery? Maybe let's all go back to live in caves, make stone tools by hand and hunt animals? Programming is very "real" in that it powers up all the infrastructures that make the modern society run. Software developers are called "engineers" for a reason. I'm not sure there's much that can get more "real" than engineering. It certainly is much better than being a salesman or something if you want to look it this way.
- shandor 8y ago
  > This isn’t the real world. It’s all just conjured up on a screen for profit and entertainment. One of the reasons I love embedded SW development is this right here. I know that it's basically just in my head, but it's so much more satisfying for me to work on a medical device SW or a harvester control system than, I dunno, some random ToDo app. One could call embedded dev the sweet spot between the real world (as you put it) and the abstract world of pure software.
  - ChuckNorris89 8y ago
kjsbfkjbf 8y ago
Also known as the alienation of labour.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

Totally agree, and am inclined to agree it may be the root cause of many a midlife crisis. I could go back to uni, take on a ton of debt, and after retraining find few want a late fifties junior. Chances are I'd never pay off the student debts before retirement either, unless I get really lucky. A direct into the job route will probably meet just as much resistance to a mid fifties starter. Foreign Legion, Police and Air Force all think I'm too old now. That smell is from all those burnt bridges. Yet 40s and 50s are when many decide they've had enough and want something more fulfilling, find limited choice, and end up with a self employed micro business. I suspect this is not what they wished for in many cases, but just what's left.

maigret 8y ago
Interesting point of view, in most of Europe you'd not get in debt at all for that. Finding a job as a beginner would be as hard though. In the age of Internet though, it's never too hard to learn something new for free. Also, you can still try another occupation during the week-ends. You get to learn and experience something new while volunteering or making additional money, and after all you either see that your existing job is better, or that you want to make a change, being trained and knowledgeable of why you want to switch.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  I'm in the UK, so £27k for a three year degree, and cost of living and any commitments for the period. It becomes a huge gamble, even if you don't need to debt fund it, if you are coming back into the workplace with only 10 or 15 years to run. When I look at friends who got out of tech, which is now more of them than didn't, I see age taking away choices. Switch before 40s, a fully new career on the back of a degree or training to become whatever seems possible. Leave it later in 40s and 50s and it seems there's fewer choices and far more frustration around it, and the odd mid life crisis.

Ultimatt 8y ago

None of those doors are closed. Its just people become financially and time constrained. Usually by starting a family not by writing software.

kabouseng 8y ago
I didn't say they close because of writing software. They close because of living your life.
MrGilbert 8y ago
Well, some doors are closed forever. With 32, I'm too old to become a police officer in most states in my country, for instance.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Can only become a police officer if there is still time to indoctrinate you while you are impressionable? Clearly it’s not because of job requirements, since we have 50 year old officers...
  - Haga 8y ago
    Police work has a hidden deal. First 20 years you are shit posted, getting clubbered by Antifa and rightwingers on demonstrations or shot at in some ghetto. The rest of your time you get an office job to limp towards pension.
    - trophycase 8y ago
      Or just responding to domestic disputes all night.
  - cr0sh 8y ago
    I've sometimes thought about this in terms of being in the military, or what it would take for being involved in one of the "TLAs" - so to speak. At 45+ years of age, all of those doors are permanently closed to me. I do think that my thinking on them all is more that of the "romantic notions" of those careers; the reality of them is probably nowhere near as exciting, adventurous, or maybe even as worthwhile, as I might imagine them to have potentially been.

vonseel 8y ago

Having just turned 30, this resonates with me too well. Seeing it on paper helps a bit, but it still sucks. Along the lines of what others have said in this thread, I hate. Hate. Hate. Sitting at a desk for my job and staring into a little box. It just seems hysterical that we will likely spend most of our working lives staring at little boxes with lots of text and images on them. This isn’t the real world. It’s all just conjured up on a screen for profit and entertainment. Computers have taken over our lives and seem to be replacing even social interaction for some people. I’m sick of it. And as soon as you turn <device> off, it doesn’t F*ing matter anymore. I bet nearly every intellectual profession now is dominated by computer-based work. And it sucks because the old jobs - bakers, builders, mechanics, etc. - don’t pay nearly as much as the jobs that any 22 year old making shitty web apps with React can get paid. Am I flippant? Yes. Do I know where to go from here? Nope.

SZJX 8y ago
I don't think feeling the job "isn't real" is the actual underlying reason you hate your job. Most likely you're a bit burnt out or having a mid-life symptom. By your definition is baking real, since it uses all sorts of processed agricultural products and sophisticated machinery? Maybe let's all go back to live in caves, make stone tools by hand and hunt animals? Programming is very "real" in that it powers up all the infrastructures that make the modern society run. Software developers are called "engineers" for a reason. I'm not sure there's much that can get more "real" than engineering. It certainly is much better than being a salesman or something if you want to look it this way.
shandor 8y ago
> This isn’t the real world. It’s all just conjured up on a screen for profit and entertainment. One of the reasons I love embedded SW development is this right here. I know that it's basically just in my head, but it's so much more satisfying for me to work on a medical device SW or a harvester control system than, I dunno, some random ToDo app. One could call embedded dev the sweet spot between the real world (as you put it) and the abstract world of pure software.
- ChuckNorris89 8y ago

kjsbfkjbf 8y ago

Also known as the alienation of labour.