44 ms·

Magic Lantern

707 points by chris_overseas 8y ago

acidburnNSA 8y ago
I used this to get a software intervalometer on my T5i and now I can take awesome timelapses of things. It's really a nice set of features.
css 8y ago
Also, for non-DSLRs: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
- feedbeef 8y ago
  CHDK, with its built-in LUA scripting, is incredible. I've used it to outfit cheap (<$30 USD) point and shoot Canon cameras for time-lapse.
russellbeattie 8y ago
I'm sort of amazed at the cost of high-end cameras, especially when what separates it from a modern smartphone seems to be nothing but bigger/faster sensors and the ability to use big lenses. The camera manufacturers use the lowest powered CPUs they can get away with, running proprietary real-time operating systems with horrible UX and no third party support. For the price of a high end laptop. It really seems like something is off in the market - but there doesn't seem to be any sort of real change happening. I needed to do some video work last year, so I basically followed Casey Neistat's suggestion for a Canon camera, only to find out it wouldn't allow me to export the video live via an HDMI cable without the camera's overlay on top. Turning all the elements off still left me with a red dot in the corner. Apparently I got the wrong model and the one $800 more expensive would do this. After a while I gave up, went back to the store and got a cheap video camera that could do it, BUT again, I had to get the more expensive version, because the same model in the cheaper option didn't allow this particular use case. I was really surprised by how backwards this all was! Proprietary OSs, artificially limited functionality, anemic processors, interfaces out of the 1980s. It's crazy! Has someone slapped Android on a decent camera yet?
- Kye 8y ago
  Much of the cost is in the glass. There's only so much they can do to make them cheaper without sacrificing quality, at least until metamaterial lenses get cheap enough to obsolete glass. That's why smaller mirrorless camera lenses and prime lenses for DSLRs tend to be cheaper. Primes have fewer elements to craft, align, and make work together. Mirrorless cameras just need less glass. You don't need the latest and least supported by third-party tools camera for most things. A $500 body with a $100 prime lens will outperform a $1500 camera with a kit lens.
  - mdorazio 8y ago
    Not sure that completely addresses the parent comment's point. Glass is definitely expensive for good reasons (watch some YouTube videos on optical lens manufacturing to see why), but even just a camera body for something like an EOS 6D is still $1000. The sensors can't be that much, full-frame or no, so where is the added cost coming from? Certainly not software or on-board processors. To the parent comment's point, you can get a full-blown flagship smartphone with a 6 inch high resolution screen you can actually use and a good amount of memory baked in for that price.
    - larrywright 8y ago
      There are a lot of mechanical controls on DSLRs, and they see heavy use over long periods of time. Building those to withstand hundreds of thousands of operations, and making them dust and water sealed is probably not inexpensive.
      - solarkraft 8y ago
        Then again I don't think it's that expensive either. I suspect the problem here to be scale.
        larrywright 8y ago
        Probably so, my main point was that comparing it to a plastic box with a few buttons and a big screen isn’t really a fair comparison.
Waterluvian 8y ago
Why .fm? I instantly felt confident this was internet radio related.
- mjlee 8y ago
  Firmware perhaps?
  - half-kh-hacker 8y ago
    QMK firmware do it too: https://qmk.fm https://qmk.fm
- Trombone12 8y ago
  Yeah, I was happily expecting an interesting radio station, and instead got a disappointing SPA about camera software :(
mseidl 8y ago
I recently purchased an 5d mk iii and installed magic lantern on it. The 14bit raw video is AMAZING. Also, this particular camera can now record at, I think the limit is 3.5k vs 1080p from the factory. https://youtu.be/6yKbwXYmpD0 https://youtu.be/6yKbwXYmpD0
- pen2l 8y ago
  That video, with the pre- and post- differences is pretty remarkable. Here's my stupid question of the day: given that this color-grading of RAW streams makes _SUCH_ a massive difference... why don't companies like Conan and Sony just ship it with the product? Why do their cameras fall short of having something like Magic Lantern? In the end it gives the customer what they want... surely Sony/Canon are capable of producing something like this, so why not produce it?
  - Franciscouzo 8y ago
    Most probably because it would compete with the Canon EOS product line.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - Godel_unicode 8y ago
      The full name of the 5d mark II is Canon EOS 5d mark II.
      - Franciscouzo 8y ago
        I meant the cinema EOS line...
  - mjlee 8y ago
    I wonder if it has anything to do with distinguishing a video camera from a stills camera for tax purposes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-to-hit-some-digital-cameras-with-import-duty-idUKL1777271820070717 https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-t...
jakecopp 8y ago
If you're new to Magic Lantern and need a getting started guide, here is an in depth tutorial I created :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU
- markholmes 8y ago
  Hey, thanks for this. I watched this video a few months ago when I was getting started with Magic Lantern. Nice work!
  - jakecopp 8y ago
    That's great to hear, cheers!
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  To repay you here's a little random tip, because the sound on that video is kinda boxy (with my headphones anyway), and this helped me greatly (to be honest, it kinda blew me mind how much this can fix) With a sample editor that can use VST/AU effects, and the free version of this, or something that has the same functionality: https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/ https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/ 1. take a frequency band, put the Q for it to max or near max, and gain to max. 2. sweep the frequency until you find the one that makes it sound extremely boxy (it's probably below 1k but don't take my word for it, you will hear it when you found it however) 3. now set gain to zero, activate the threshold button, and dial the threshold to a value that just makes the boxyness disappear without making it sound too thin 4. repeat with more frequencies as needed/wanted 5. compress or normalize
  - richrichardsson 8y ago
    What you're mostly doing there is working out the resonances of your room/speakers/headphones. Sorry to say it, but this is terrible advice on how to apply corrective EQ.
    - PavlovsCat 8y ago
beagle3 8y ago
Started by Trammell Hudson of Thunderstrike fame (and many other interesting projects), see https://trmm.net https://trmm.net
tambourine_man 8y ago
Imagine if Apple and Google made full frame cameras. Currently we have great hardware with terrible software and vice-versa. A Sony full frame sensor, Zeiss glass, with an A series chip and good software to make it shine.
- dpwm 8y ago
  > Imagine if Apple and Google made full frame cameras. I did – briefly – and am still recoiling from the horror. > Currently we have great hardware with terrible software and vice-versa. The software on even older DSLRs isn't terrible. It does the job it was intended to do quite well. It is learn-able, and it doesn't change its behaviour with an OTA-update you can't easily prevent. More thought has gone into the UI design of even the earliest, rushed-to-market DSLR firmwares than some of the UI changes that Apple and Google have inflicted on their victims.
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    > I did – briefly – and am still recoiling from the horror. Please explain. > The software on even older DSLRs isn't terrible. Oh yes it is. Like salt on a fresh wound. > It does the job it was intended to do quite well. It is learn-able, and it doesn't change its behaviour with an OTA-update you can't easily prevent. Its menus are completely inscrutable. But I'm not even talking about usability. One can learn anything eventually, given enough willpower. I'm imagining a processor like the one on the iPhone/iPad Pro acting on all those pixels. And a true software platform running on top of it.
    - FPGAhacker 8y ago
      > Please explain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        You mean the first successful consumer digital camera?
dgellow 8y ago
Hmm, I see a blank page on mobile (firefox, iOS).
walesmd 8y ago
Why the hell are they capturing keyboard inputs of the q, v, m, l, and p keys and updating the URI w/ navigational things? Makes CMD+L useless... Looks like the are supposedly emulating some of the camera's functions? I don't know enough about this camera for it to make any sense to me.
- btown 8y ago
  Looks like they were trying to create a mock of the user interface that's fully functional in the browser. It's really cool, great to demo, and they probably wanted to put it in the URI so you can share a link to a specific page. Maybe they even use the same UI code for both browser and the embedded system? But in practice they implemented this poorly. They could update the URI with replaceState so you don't break the back button, and ignore keyboard shortcuts if a modifier key is pressed. One of the reasons I like projects with open-source websites - you can just file an issue on the website itself!
bane 8y ago
obligatory, is there something like this for Nikon cameras?
- sakopov 8y ago
  There is NikonHacker [1], but I don't think it's nearly as feature-rich as Magic Lantern. [1] https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Main_Page https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Main_Page
gammateam 8y ago
One thing I want in full frame EVIL cameras is live photos capability Record from 1 keyframe to the next keyframe, take full resolution still at the user clicked place in between And done as automatic as it happens on iOS
alphagrep12345 8y ago
How did these guys reverse engineer Canon's software?
- dylan604 8y ago
  the word from the grapevine says one (maybe more??) of the developers used to work for Canon.
- teki_one 8y ago
  A non Canon example of the process: https://alexhude.github.io/2019/01/24/hacking-leica-m240.html https://alexhude.github.io/2019/01/24/hacking-leica-m240.htm...
- BioGeek 8y ago
  Trammell Hudson in 2009 reverse engineered the firmware of the Canon EOS 5D Mark II because he was frustrated with some of the limitations in the camera's firmware when making short films. That little hack turned into Magic Lantern. On his website [1] you'll find a screenshot [2] of his first success: adding three extra vanity letters to the firmware version number. He states: "Re-writing strings is a good easy technique for figuring out if you have 'won' and your code is running on the system." [1] https://trmm.net/Taking_things_apart#Extending https://trmm.net/Taking_things_apart#Extending [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/16412008471/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/16412008471/lightbox/
gjsman-1000 8y ago
GoPro once released a camera called the GoPro HERO (2018). It didn't take long for some hackers to realize it was a stock-clearing trick and was actually a GoPro Hero 5 Black with some of the software features disabled. They then figured out a way to install the GoPro Hero 5 Black software on it, re-enabling all of the disabled features. That... I'm not so sure where that is, morally.
- EvangelicalPig 8y ago
  The ML folks have sworn off working on higher end cameras (1DX and similar) because of thinly veiled legal threats from Canon, although I'd personally be concerned about bricking a camera that expensive.
  - post_break 8y ago
    Which is total BS and allows Canon to drag their feet to add features that the cameras are completely capable of. It's kind of a joke that a camera can do complex things yet the only thing holding it back are firmware updates. Canon could even charge for say a "film" firmware for their DSLR cameras to enable these features, disable AGM, etc. But they have to protect their film cameras that even still miss features ML brings to the table.
    - EvangelicalPig 8y ago
      Agreed. I wish a development team in a "better" jurisdiction would fork ML and continue on with it. Sigh
microcolonel 8y ago
Very cool, I am absolutely shocked that Sony doesn't offer basically any control over bitrates or framerates (on the α7/9), except extremely rigid profiles; I doubt the hardware is actually that restrictive.
unictek 8y ago
With magic lantern, is it possible to stream the video from the camera to a host computer? For example to use it like a webcam
- fmj 8y ago
  You might not even need magic lantern for that. I have a 77d and it streams a live view to the Canon EOS utility over WiFi. Quality seems pretty good. I haven't looked into it myself, but I wouldn't be too surprised if someone has written software to stream from it in this mode.
dylan604 8y ago
I now hold the belief that any Canon camera that does not have Magic Lantern installed is broken. I use it on my 5DmkII, and it's an entirely different camera. I love the features that ML brings to me for shooting stills (I don't shoot video on my DSLR). An internal intervalometer is worth its weight in gold. The ETTR ability is also priceless for chasing sunsets/rises. For how I use my mkII, the only thing that I have that's nit picky about ML is that it can't handle intervals less than 5 seconds. When it comes to requiring shorter intervals, I do pull out a wired intervalometer, but that's rare. One thing that I'd love to figure out is how to have ML control the timelapse, but have the camera signal to an external motion controller. Usually, the motion controllers want to control the camera so everything is in sync. However, as ETTR increases the shutter time chasing a sunset, the motion controller needs to know to delay the move. I have built devices connected to the shutter release port waiting for the voltages to change, but that didn't work. Was hoping that the voltage would drop when triggered internally, but it seems the port isn't wired way. Almost like they might have an opto-isolator on the port or some other method to protect the port but it doesn't allow the voltage to drop when triggered by the camera itself.
- elijahparker 8y ago
  For synchronizing motion, you can use the camera's hot shoe. It will be closed during the exposure and open once it's complete.
  - pawelk 8y ago
    > you can use the camera's hot shoe Or even better the PC Sync port - it's quite a simple plug, easy to get one and connect to the camera, the hot shoe is a bit fiddly to connect to (unless you have a spare shoe and are willing to modify it). Also setting flash sync to the second curtain will close the circuit just before the exposure ends instead of when it starts, which may be beneficial for interval calculations with long exposures.
    - dylan604 8y ago
      I've tried the flash port with rear curtain syncing, but still didn't do what I needed it to do. Mainly, I had difficulty with the timing of the signal. It's not like the shutter release where there's voltage and then there's not. It's an obvious thing to test for. The flash was just a quick blip. Maybe it was the low cost meter that I have, but when the flash triggered, it barely even registered on my meter.
mmaunder 8y ago
5DMkII owner here. I love ML and have been a canon user for over 20 years. But I recently switched to Sony as have many other Canon users I meet because Canon is not innovating as well as Sony. Better sensors, features, ergonomics and capabilities. The A7Sii is a thing of beauty. Includes many ML features built in like focus peaking, zebra lines, etc. And you van remove the 30 min limit on recording via a hack so no need for MLs features that try to help with that. Also Sony make sensors for many other camera companies including Nikon.
- bpye 8y ago
  My (relatively) inexpensive Panasonic GX-80 (GX-85 in some markets) has those features. How are Canon so far behind? The biggest issue with the GX-85 for film is it's lack of audio in, that can be circumvented with a seperate audio recorder but it's certainly not perfect.
djfergus 8y ago
There are similar efforts afoot for Sony cameras but have never reached the level of Magic Lantern. e.g https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/emount-electronic-protocol-reverse-engineering_topic119522.html https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/emount-electronic-protocol-reve... https://sony-pmca.appspot.com/apps https://sony-pmca.appspot.com/apps
djfergus 8y ago
I'm surprised Magic Lantern hasn't been sued out of existence by Canon. Canon is notorious for holding back simple software features from entry-level cameras to price differentiate. Customisable firmware is a threat to their business model... For the same reason I'm curious that Sony is not more open - their strategy appears to be the opposite of Canon, throwing in the kitchen sink of features into their entry level bodies. And yet they have removed tha ability to load Android apps onto their latest cameras...
- plants 8y ago
  Conversely, Magic Lantern is a reason for consumers to pick Canon over Nikon or some other camera brand. I imagine there are also at least some differences in the quality of sensors between high-end and lower-end DSLRs?
openloop 8y ago
Maybe Canon should hire this guy...
javchz 8y ago
Recently I got a second hand "Canon EOS M" it's an old Mirrorless, for only $200 USD. Thanks to ML I can get footage at 2.5K in 12-bit RAW, or pseudo-4K in an anamorphic format. If you're a film student in a small budget, the amazing work from the people behind the project it's a gift from heaven, as the quality it's almost film-like (ready for regular LUTs). Basically you can have RED or BlackMagic Camera color and HDR kinda-quality with a small budget... and a lot or patience and free time. Still tho... I would not use ML RAW for a client in production projects (like a wedding or commercial), as most builds are in a "Always-Beta" state, with a lot a bugs and slow editing workflow for a professional setting. So in those cases, I would recommend record in old h264 in a flat profile, and use all other ML features like zebras, and live histogram. Kudos for the ML Devs, who against all logic, are giving ton of work for the indie film community.
- codetrotter 8y ago
  Thanks, I went and found an EOS M for sale after reading your comment and bought it. Turns out there’s a shutter bug and to get around that I need a specific brand and model of SD card. But I am enjoying the camera so far. Looking forward to capture raw video with magic lantern after I buy that SD card.
- wjvdhoek 8y ago
  HN tip of the month ;) When Canon released the EOS M as its first mirrorless camera, it hasn't gone down well in many reviews as it's a slow performer[0]. Now, this has actually been addressed in a later firmware upgrade, but at that point the damage had already been done. After that, Canon basically dumped this camera on the market at very low prices. Good thing for us is that this little camera can now be bought very cheap second hand (got mine last year at around $100) Once you load up ML, you get a fantastic fun little camera! I'm not very experienced with shooting video but for photography, it's a wonderful experience. Focus peeking, magic zoom, interval photography, all for free. Many kudos to the ML devs from this side as well! [0] https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/m.htm https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/m.htm
oftenwrong 8y ago
Better headline: "Magic Lantern: a free firmware add-on for Canon EOS cameras"
stets 8y ago
I have a canon rebel t2i sitting on my shelf I bought from a friend and haven't touched. How can I install this and learn some basic photography skills? I used to like making stop motion vids and that's why I bought it but I'm overwhelmed with all of the options.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  What part of the installation instructions was confusing? https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/install https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/install Unrelated to that learning basic photography skills mostly involves learning the relationship between ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. You can google guides, probably attend a course in a local university/college, or adult-educational center, and also experiment via trial and error.
  - stets 8y ago
    None of the installation is confusing -- just the actual camera skills part.
baroffoos 8y ago
I will probably never use this but I am delighted every time I see the OS community reverse engineer something and provide a better, open source version while having a fraction of the resources and information.
m3at 8y ago
I wonder why Canon refrain from supporting this kind of projects by providing documentation on how to interface with the hardware (without going as far as stamping it as official). It seems that it make their products more attractive at no cost for them. Any drawbacks?
- 0-_-0 8y ago
  My suspicion is that so few people are using these features that it's not worth the effort. Disclosing the details of the hardware could also open them up to litigation if a competitor finds something slightly similar to something they already patented.
_pmf_ 8y ago
Does anyone know if there's an equivalent project for Nikon (D 5000)? On a first quick search, I've found nothing comparable.
xiconfjs 8y ago
I'd love to have something like ML for my Sony Alpha :(
- chaoticmass 8y ago
  Pretty sure my A99ii will never see anything cool like this.
MayeulC 8y ago
I apologize if that's a bit off-topic, but I would appreciate some advice on where to start with decent digital photography. I am in no way a professional photographer, but I have mostly used some relatively budget smart phones to take pictures these past years (my previous experiences were with a canon compact circa 2002-2008, and film). I do not have a great budget for photography, since it isn't my main hobby (and am still studying), but would appreciate some of the features I saw in the discussion thread & website, notably: - the ability to shoot RAW pictures - the ability to shoot professional-ish looking videos - an open firmware I can tinker with and learn from is a great plus - if the device is moddable or has some available interface ports, that would be nice as well - maybe a timelapse/timer function? (though that sounds quite simple to implement with the above). Would compact cameras be the way to go (they're a plus for travel, I think)? Or would a cheap (second hand) DSLR be way better? Any specific brand suggestions? Thank you in advance for the advice!
- dingaling 8y ago
  I'm a lifelong SLR shooter but I was posed the same question recently. Micro Four-Thirds MILCs appear to be very capable, affordable and portable. I'd suggest you look at Panasonic or Olympus, they seem to have excellent lenses which is what really defines the photo. Fuji are also well spoken of but I think they use bigger APS-C sensors. Check out DP Review website. Getting into used 'big' DSLR instead would probably cost about $1600 ( used 6D and 24-70 or 24-105 f/4 lens) which is a lot to gamble on a new hobby. And contrary to legend, they don't hold value. I've been quoted less than 50% trade-in value on from-new Canon L lenses. Unless you're buying Leica, photography is not an investment; be prepared to lose money unless you manage to sell your photos in volume.
piahoo 8y ago
sorry for stupid question, does this software support all the EOS M series? M50, M5, M6, M100?
- 0-_-0 8y ago
  The list of supported cameras is right on the front page. The list of cameras supported by CHDK is on the front page here: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK To summarize, ML supports M and M2, CHDK supports M3 and M10. There was some progress on the rest.
sandworm101 8y ago
A poor choice of names imho. When I see "magic lantern" on HN I think of something totally different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software) "Magic Lantern is keystroke logging software developed by the United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Magic Lantern was first reported in a column by Bob Sullivan of MSNBC on 20 November 2001[1] and by Ted Bridis of the Associated Press.[2]"

I used this to get a software intervalometer on my T5i and now I can take awesome timelapses of things. It's really a nice set of features.

css 8y ago

Also, for non-DSLRs: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

feedbeef 8y ago
CHDK, with its built-in LUA scripting, is incredible. I've used it to outfit cheap (<$30 USD) point and shoot Canon cameras for time-lapse.

russellbeattie 8y ago

I'm sort of amazed at the cost of high-end cameras, especially when what separates it from a modern smartphone seems to be nothing but bigger/faster sensors and the ability to use big lenses. The camera manufacturers use the lowest powered CPUs they can get away with, running proprietary real-time operating systems with horrible UX and no third party support. For the price of a high end laptop. It really seems like something is off in the market - but there doesn't seem to be any sort of real change happening. I needed to do some video work last year, so I basically followed Casey Neistat's suggestion for a Canon camera, only to find out it wouldn't allow me to export the video live via an HDMI cable without the camera's overlay on top. Turning all the elements off still left me with a red dot in the corner. Apparently I got the wrong model and the one $800 more expensive would do this. After a while I gave up, went back to the store and got a cheap video camera that could do it, BUT again, I had to get the more expensive version, because the same model in the cheaper option didn't allow this particular use case. I was really surprised by how backwards this all was! Proprietary OSs, artificially limited functionality, anemic processors, interfaces out of the 1980s. It's crazy! Has someone slapped Android on a decent camera yet?

Kye 8y ago
Much of the cost is in the glass. There's only so much they can do to make them cheaper without sacrificing quality, at least until metamaterial lenses get cheap enough to obsolete glass. That's why smaller mirrorless camera lenses and prime lenses for DSLRs tend to be cheaper. Primes have fewer elements to craft, align, and make work together. Mirrorless cameras just need less glass. You don't need the latest and least supported by third-party tools camera for most things. A $500 body with a $100 prime lens will outperform a $1500 camera with a kit lens.
- mdorazio 8y ago
  Not sure that completely addresses the parent comment's point. Glass is definitely expensive for good reasons (watch some YouTube videos on optical lens manufacturing to see why), but even just a camera body for something like an EOS 6D is still $1000. The sensors can't be that much, full-frame or no, so where is the added cost coming from? Certainly not software or on-board processors. To the parent comment's point, you can get a full-blown flagship smartphone with a 6 inch high resolution screen you can actually use and a good amount of memory baked in for that price.
  - larrywright 8y ago
    There are a lot of mechanical controls on DSLRs, and they see heavy use over long periods of time. Building those to withstand hundreds of thousands of operations, and making them dust and water sealed is probably not inexpensive.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      Then again I don't think it's that expensive either. I suspect the problem here to be scale.
      - larrywright 8y ago
        Probably so, my main point was that comparing it to a plastic box with a few buttons and a big screen isn’t really a fair comparison.

Waterluvian 8y ago

Why .fm? I instantly felt confident this was internet radio related.

mjlee 8y ago
Firmware perhaps?
- half-kh-hacker 8y ago
  QMK firmware do it too: https://qmk.fm https://qmk.fm
Trombone12 8y ago
Yeah, I was happily expecting an interesting radio station, and instead got a disappointing SPA about camera software :(

mseidl 8y ago

I recently purchased an 5d mk iii and installed magic lantern on it. The 14bit raw video is AMAZING. Also, this particular camera can now record at, I think the limit is 3.5k vs 1080p from the factory. https://youtu.be/6yKbwXYmpD0 https://youtu.be/6yKbwXYmpD0

pen2l 8y ago
That video, with the pre- and post- differences is pretty remarkable. Here's my stupid question of the day: given that this color-grading of RAW streams makes _SUCH_ a massive difference... why don't companies like Conan and Sony just ship it with the product? Why do their cameras fall short of having something like Magic Lantern? In the end it gives the customer what they want... surely Sony/Canon are capable of producing something like this, so why not produce it?
- Franciscouzo 8y ago
  Most probably because it would compete with the Canon EOS product line.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    The full name of the 5d mark II is Canon EOS 5d mark II.
    - Franciscouzo 8y ago
      I meant the cinema EOS line...
- mjlee 8y ago
  I wonder if it has anything to do with distinguishing a video camera from a stills camera for tax purposes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-to-hit-some-digital-cameras-with-import-duty-idUKL1777271820070717 https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-t...

jakecopp 8y ago

If you're new to Magic Lantern and need a getting started guide, here is an in depth tutorial I created :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU

markholmes 8y ago
Hey, thanks for this. I watched this video a few months ago when I was getting started with Magic Lantern. Nice work!
- jakecopp 8y ago
  That's great to hear, cheers!
PavlovsCat 8y ago
To repay you here's a little random tip, because the sound on that video is kinda boxy (with my headphones anyway), and this helped me greatly (to be honest, it kinda blew me mind how much this can fix) With a sample editor that can use VST/AU effects, and the free version of this, or something that has the same functionality: https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/ https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/ 1. take a frequency band, put the Q for it to max or near max, and gain to max. 2. sweep the frequency until you find the one that makes it sound extremely boxy (it's probably below 1k but don't take my word for it, you will hear it when you found it however) 3. now set gain to zero, activate the threshold button, and dial the threshold to a value that just makes the boxyness disappear without making it sound too thin 4. repeat with more frequencies as needed/wanted 5. compress or normalize
- richrichardsson 8y ago
  What you're mostly doing there is working out the resonances of your room/speakers/headphones. Sorry to say it, but this is terrible advice on how to apply corrective EQ.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago

beagle3 8y ago

Started by Trammell Hudson of Thunderstrike fame (and many other interesting projects), see https://trmm.net https://trmm.net

tambourine_man 8y ago

Imagine if Apple and Google made full frame cameras. Currently we have great hardware with terrible software and vice-versa. A Sony full frame sensor, Zeiss glass, with an A series chip and good software to make it shine.

dpwm 8y ago
> Imagine if Apple and Google made full frame cameras. I did – briefly – and am still recoiling from the horror. > Currently we have great hardware with terrible software and vice-versa. The software on even older DSLRs isn't terrible. It does the job it was intended to do quite well. It is learn-able, and it doesn't change its behaviour with an OTA-update you can't easily prevent. More thought has gone into the UI design of even the earliest, rushed-to-market DSLR firmwares than some of the UI changes that Apple and Google have inflicted on their victims.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  > I did – briefly – and am still recoiling from the horror. Please explain. > The software on even older DSLRs isn't terrible. Oh yes it is. Like salt on a fresh wound. > It does the job it was intended to do quite well. It is learn-able, and it doesn't change its behaviour with an OTA-update you can't easily prevent. Its menus are completely inscrutable. But I'm not even talking about usability. One can learn anything eventually, given enough willpower. I'm imagining a processor like the one on the iPhone/iPad Pro acting on all those pixels. And a true software platform running on top of it.
  - FPGAhacker 8y ago
    > Please explain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      You mean the first successful consumer digital camera?

dgellow 8y ago

Hmm, I see a blank page on mobile (firefox, iOS).

walesmd 8y ago

Why the hell are they capturing keyboard inputs of the q, v, m, l, and p keys and updating the URI w/ navigational things? Makes CMD+L useless... Looks like the are supposedly emulating some of the camera's functions? I don't know enough about this camera for it to make any sense to me.

btown 8y ago
Looks like they were trying to create a mock of the user interface that's fully functional in the browser. It's really cool, great to demo, and they probably wanted to put it in the URI so you can share a link to a specific page. Maybe they even use the same UI code for both browser and the embedded system? But in practice they implemented this poorly. They could update the URI with replaceState so you don't break the back button, and ignore keyboard shortcuts if a modifier key is pressed. One of the reasons I like projects with open-source websites - you can just file an issue on the website itself!

bane 8y ago

obligatory, is there something like this for Nikon cameras?

sakopov 8y ago
There is NikonHacker [1], but I don't think it's nearly as feature-rich as Magic Lantern. [1] https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Main_Page https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Main_Page

gammateam 8y ago

One thing I want in full frame EVIL cameras is live photos capability Record from 1 keyframe to the next keyframe, take full resolution still at the user clicked place in between And done as automatic as it happens on iOS

alphagrep12345 8y ago

How did these guys reverse engineer Canon's software?

dylan604 8y ago
the word from the grapevine says one (maybe more??) of the developers used to work for Canon.
teki_one 8y ago
A non Canon example of the process: https://alexhude.github.io/2019/01/24/hacking-leica-m240.html https://alexhude.github.io/2019/01/24/hacking-leica-m240.htm...
BioGeek 8y ago
Trammell Hudson in 2009 reverse engineered the firmware of the Canon EOS 5D Mark II because he was frustrated with some of the limitations in the camera's firmware when making short films. That little hack turned into Magic Lantern. On his website [1] you'll find a screenshot [2] of his first success: adding three extra vanity letters to the firmware version number. He states: "Re-writing strings is a good easy technique for figuring out if you have 'won' and your code is running on the system." [1] https://trmm.net/Taking_things_apart#Extending https://trmm.net/Taking_things_apart#Extending [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/16412008471/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/16412008471/lightbox/

gjsman-1000 8y ago

GoPro once released a camera called the GoPro HERO (2018). It didn't take long for some hackers to realize it was a stock-clearing trick and was actually a GoPro Hero 5 Black with some of the software features disabled. They then figured out a way to install the GoPro Hero 5 Black software on it, re-enabling all of the disabled features. That... I'm not so sure where that is, morally.

EvangelicalPig 8y ago
The ML folks have sworn off working on higher end cameras (1DX and similar) because of thinly veiled legal threats from Canon, although I'd personally be concerned about bricking a camera that expensive.
- post_break 8y ago
  Which is total BS and allows Canon to drag their feet to add features that the cameras are completely capable of. It's kind of a joke that a camera can do complex things yet the only thing holding it back are firmware updates. Canon could even charge for say a "film" firmware for their DSLR cameras to enable these features, disable AGM, etc. But they have to protect their film cameras that even still miss features ML brings to the table.
  - EvangelicalPig 8y ago
    Agreed. I wish a development team in a "better" jurisdiction would fork ML and continue on with it. Sigh

microcolonel 8y ago

Very cool, I am absolutely shocked that Sony doesn't offer basically any control over bitrates or framerates (on the α7/9), except extremely rigid profiles; I doubt the hardware is actually that restrictive.

unictek 8y ago

With magic lantern, is it possible to stream the video from the camera to a host computer? For example to use it like a webcam

fmj 8y ago
You might not even need magic lantern for that. I have a 77d and it streams a live view to the Canon EOS utility over WiFi. Quality seems pretty good. I haven't looked into it myself, but I wouldn't be too surprised if someone has written software to stream from it in this mode.

dylan604 8y ago

I now hold the belief that any Canon camera that does not have Magic Lantern installed is broken. I use it on my 5DmkII, and it's an entirely different camera. I love the features that ML brings to me for shooting stills (I don't shoot video on my DSLR). An internal intervalometer is worth its weight in gold. The ETTR ability is also priceless for chasing sunsets/rises. For how I use my mkII, the only thing that I have that's nit picky about ML is that it can't handle intervals less than 5 seconds. When it comes to requiring shorter intervals, I do pull out a wired intervalometer, but that's rare. One thing that I'd love to figure out is how to have ML control the timelapse, but have the camera signal to an external motion controller. Usually, the motion controllers want to control the camera so everything is in sync. However, as ETTR increases the shutter time chasing a sunset, the motion controller needs to know to delay the move. I have built devices connected to the shutter release port waiting for the voltages to change, but that didn't work. Was hoping that the voltage would drop when triggered internally, but it seems the port isn't wired way. Almost like they might have an opto-isolator on the port or some other method to protect the port but it doesn't allow the voltage to drop when triggered by the camera itself.

elijahparker 8y ago
For synchronizing motion, you can use the camera's hot shoe. It will be closed during the exposure and open once it's complete.
- pawelk 8y ago
  > you can use the camera's hot shoe Or even better the PC Sync port - it's quite a simple plug, easy to get one and connect to the camera, the hot shoe is a bit fiddly to connect to (unless you have a spare shoe and are willing to modify it). Also setting flash sync to the second curtain will close the circuit just before the exposure ends instead of when it starts, which may be beneficial for interval calculations with long exposures.
  - dylan604 8y ago
    I've tried the flash port with rear curtain syncing, but still didn't do what I needed it to do. Mainly, I had difficulty with the timing of the signal. It's not like the shutter release where there's voltage and then there's not. It's an obvious thing to test for. The flash was just a quick blip. Maybe it was the low cost meter that I have, but when the flash triggered, it barely even registered on my meter.

mmaunder 8y ago

5DMkII owner here. I love ML and have been a canon user for over 20 years. But I recently switched to Sony as have many other Canon users I meet because Canon is not innovating as well as Sony. Better sensors, features, ergonomics and capabilities. The A7Sii is a thing of beauty. Includes many ML features built in like focus peaking, zebra lines, etc. And you van remove the 30 min limit on recording via a hack so no need for MLs features that try to help with that. Also Sony make sensors for many other camera companies including Nikon.

bpye 8y ago
My (relatively) inexpensive Panasonic GX-80 (GX-85 in some markets) has those features. How are Canon so far behind? The biggest issue with the GX-85 for film is it's lack of audio in, that can be circumvented with a seperate audio recorder but it's certainly not perfect.

djfergus 8y ago

There are similar efforts afoot for Sony cameras but have never reached the level of Magic Lantern. e.g https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/emount-electronic-protocol-reverse-engineering_topic119522.html https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/emount-electronic-protocol-reve... https://sony-pmca.appspot.com/apps https://sony-pmca.appspot.com/apps

djfergus 8y ago

I'm surprised Magic Lantern hasn't been sued out of existence by Canon. Canon is notorious for holding back simple software features from entry-level cameras to price differentiate. Customisable firmware is a threat to their business model... For the same reason I'm curious that Sony is not more open - their strategy appears to be the opposite of Canon, throwing in the kitchen sink of features into their entry level bodies. And yet they have removed tha ability to load Android apps onto their latest cameras...

plants 8y ago
Conversely, Magic Lantern is a reason for consumers to pick Canon over Nikon or some other camera brand. I imagine there are also at least some differences in the quality of sensors between high-end and lower-end DSLRs?

openloop 8y ago

Maybe Canon should hire this guy...

javchz 8y ago

Recently I got a second hand "Canon EOS M" it's an old Mirrorless, for only $200 USD. Thanks to ML I can get footage at 2.5K in 12-bit RAW, or pseudo-4K in an anamorphic format. If you're a film student in a small budget, the amazing work from the people behind the project it's a gift from heaven, as the quality it's almost film-like (ready for regular LUTs). Basically you can have RED or BlackMagic Camera color and HDR kinda-quality with a small budget... and a lot or patience and free time. Still tho... I would not use ML RAW for a client in production projects (like a wedding or commercial), as most builds are in a "Always-Beta" state, with a lot a bugs and slow editing workflow for a professional setting. So in those cases, I would recommend record in old h264 in a flat profile, and use all other ML features like zebras, and live histogram. Kudos for the ML Devs, who against all logic, are giving ton of work for the indie film community.

codetrotter 8y ago
Thanks, I went and found an EOS M for sale after reading your comment and bought it. Turns out there’s a shutter bug and to get around that I need a specific brand and model of SD card. But I am enjoying the camera so far. Looking forward to capture raw video with magic lantern after I buy that SD card.
wjvdhoek 8y ago
HN tip of the month ;) When Canon released the EOS M as its first mirrorless camera, it hasn't gone down well in many reviews as it's a slow performer[0]. Now, this has actually been addressed in a later firmware upgrade, but at that point the damage had already been done. After that, Canon basically dumped this camera on the market at very low prices. Good thing for us is that this little camera can now be bought very cheap second hand (got mine last year at around $100) Once you load up ML, you get a fantastic fun little camera! I'm not very experienced with shooting video but for photography, it's a wonderful experience. Focus peeking, magic zoom, interval photography, all for free. Many kudos to the ML devs from this side as well! [0] https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/m.htm https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/m.htm

oftenwrong 8y ago

Better headline: "Magic Lantern: a free firmware add-on for Canon EOS cameras"

stets 8y ago

I have a canon rebel t2i sitting on my shelf I bought from a friend and haven't touched. How can I install this and learn some basic photography skills? I used to like making stop motion vids and that's why I bought it but I'm overwhelmed with all of the options.

stevekemp 8y ago
What part of the installation instructions was confusing? https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/install https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/install Unrelated to that learning basic photography skills mostly involves learning the relationship between ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. You can google guides, probably attend a course in a local university/college, or adult-educational center, and also experiment via trial and error.
- stets 8y ago
  None of the installation is confusing -- just the actual camera skills part.

baroffoos 8y ago

I will probably never use this but I am delighted every time I see the OS community reverse engineer something and provide a better, open source version while having a fraction of the resources and information.

m3at 8y ago

I wonder why Canon refrain from supporting this kind of projects by providing documentation on how to interface with the hardware (without going as far as stamping it as official). It seems that it make their products more attractive at no cost for them. Any drawbacks?

0-_-0 8y ago
My suspicion is that so few people are using these features that it's not worth the effort. Disclosing the details of the hardware could also open them up to litigation if a competitor finds something slightly similar to something they already patented.

_pmf_ 8y ago

Does anyone know if there's an equivalent project for Nikon (D 5000)? On a first quick search, I've found nothing comparable.

xiconfjs 8y ago

I'd love to have something like ML for my Sony Alpha :(

chaoticmass 8y ago
Pretty sure my A99ii will never see anything cool like this.

MayeulC 8y ago

I apologize if that's a bit off-topic, but I would appreciate some advice on where to start with decent digital photography. I am in no way a professional photographer, but I have mostly used some relatively budget smart phones to take pictures these past years (my previous experiences were with a canon compact circa 2002-2008, and film). I do not have a great budget for photography, since it isn't my main hobby (and am still studying), but would appreciate some of the features I saw in the discussion thread & website, notably: - the ability to shoot RAW pictures - the ability to shoot professional-ish looking videos - an open firmware I can tinker with and learn from is a great plus - if the device is moddable or has some available interface ports, that would be nice as well - maybe a timelapse/timer function? (though that sounds quite simple to implement with the above). Would compact cameras be the way to go (they're a plus for travel, I think)? Or would a cheap (second hand) DSLR be way better? Any specific brand suggestions? Thank you in advance for the advice!

dingaling 8y ago
I'm a lifelong SLR shooter but I was posed the same question recently. Micro Four-Thirds MILCs appear to be very capable, affordable and portable. I'd suggest you look at Panasonic or Olympus, they seem to have excellent lenses which is what really defines the photo. Fuji are also well spoken of but I think they use bigger APS-C sensors. Check out DP Review website. Getting into used 'big' DSLR instead would probably cost about $1600 ( used 6D and 24-70 or 24-105 f/4 lens) which is a lot to gamble on a new hobby. And contrary to legend, they don't hold value. I've been quoted less than 50% trade-in value on from-new Canon L lenses. Unless you're buying Leica, photography is not an investment; be prepared to lose money unless you manage to sell your photos in volume.

piahoo 8y ago

sorry for stupid question, does this software support all the EOS M series? M50, M5, M6, M100?

0-_-0 8y ago
The list of supported cameras is right on the front page. The list of cameras supported by CHDK is on the front page here: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK To summarize, ML supports M and M2, CHDK supports M3 and M10. There was some progress on the rest.

sandworm101 8y ago

A poor choice of names imho. When I see "magic lantern" on HN I think of something totally different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software) "Magic Lantern is keystroke logging software developed by the United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Magic Lantern was first reported in a column by Bob Sullivan of MSNBC on 20 November 2001[1] and by Ted Bridis of the Associated Press.[2]"