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I’ve had recruiters try to set up a call before even telling me the name of the company, big red flag. Last time they did that it was because they wanted to hid

I’ve had recruiters try to set up a call before even telling me the name of the company, big red flag. Last time they did that it was because they wanted to hide that the position was machine learning to make murder robots

leerob 8y ago
I've had this happen a handful of times actually. I could be wrong, but I think their fear is that you would directly apply and bypass their services.
- opportune 8y ago
  The thing is, when they do that you have no idea if it’s some shitty bodyshop looking for people with pulses or a cool company that you’d love to work for, so you have no opportunity to do research into the company before dedicating time to call someone. I don’t see the benefit of bypassing their services since recruiters are usually a decent foot in the door, but maybe I’m missing something
- jacobyoder 8y ago
  The recruiters I've known would document their outreach to you, and notify the company that'd we'd spoken. If they'd specifically contacted me, the I bypassed them, they may still get paid somehow (but I'd lose whatever bargaining skills they might bring to the process)>.
  - leerob 8y ago
    Good to know. That makes sense.
  - hash872 8y ago
    >If they'd specifically contacted me, the I bypassed them, they may still get paid somehow This is not true at all
    - jacobyoder 8y ago
      I've talked with a number of recruiters - 2 specifically indicated that they had arrangements with the end client - essentially an exclusivity deal. Once they revealed the client name to me, they'd let the client know, and if I made contact outside the recruiter, it was still an 'introduction' they'd get paid for if/when I was hired. Both of these were from a job search in the mid 2000s. I've spoken with many more generalist recruiters, none of whom ever indicated this sort of system. I don't think it's overly common, but it was an arrangement that 2 recruiters indicated they had. Perhaps they were extreme one-offs?
avip 8y ago
If someone approached you on LI to build "machine learning to make murder robots", do consider the (99%) possibility you're just a sample point in some social science "research".
- opportune 8y ago
  It wasn’t social science research, the recruiter was working for an actual robotics company with almost exclusively military customers
  - kerng 8y ago
    Always be suspicious of anything like that. Probably wasn't the case here but nothing prevents one setting up a network of fake profiles to appear legit and get data from others. The Internet is a scary place.
    - opportune 8y ago
      That may be true but considering the job was based around where I live and the company has many news articles written about it and lots of publicly verifiable funding, I don't think it was fake. Of course like I said it's not like the recruiter was like "hey wanna make killer robots??" it's more that in doing research for the company and my own job description that's what it seemed likely I would be partially working on
- wool_gather 8y ago
  "murder robots" is most likely just parent's translation of the job description, for purposes of getting their point across.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mrburton 8y ago
There's also legal reasons why they don't advertise the company names. There's so much engineers don't know about recruiting. I'm an engineer and spent a lot of time talking to 100's of recruiters to understand what and why they do what they do. It's a) expensive for them b) they have a lot of legal things they must worry about and c) Engineers can be very very crappy to speak with when you are an recruiter. They will treat you like crap based on job title only.
- opportune 8y ago
  What are the legal reasons?
  - kortilla 8y ago
    s/legal/money If a recruiter tells you the name of the company up front and you are really interested, you might ignore their message and just apply to the company in which case they don’t get their referral fee.
    - opportune 8y ago
      That’s not a legal reason
    - marcosdumay 8y ago
      Will you? Why would you avoid a person that is doing all the paper work, has some knowledge of the position already, and will have much more selling time with the employer than you could get? Just to save your future employer some money? I can imagine people going through the extra work of avoiding the recruiter if they think it will increase the odds of they getting the job (what means they think the recruiter is incompetent or dishonest), or if working with the recruiter is even more work than going without (what again means the recruiter is incompetent). But I can't imagine people doing that without a problem by the recruiter part. I can also imagine many developers sending the emails directly to the trash, and latter finding out about the position and applying by themselves. That could give one the wrong impression.
    - 8y ago
tropo 8y ago
That job sounds amazing. Lots of people would take lower pay and/or live out in a miserable location just for the chance to work on something like that. Clearly they didn't really hide anything, because you now know. Perhaps they wanted to hear your reaction on the phone to see if you'd be enthusiastic about the mission.
- opportune 8y ago
  good, that means I saved that job for someone else who wants to do it I guess

leerob 8y ago

I've had this happen a handful of times actually. I could be wrong, but I think their fear is that you would directly apply and bypass their services.

opportune 8y ago
The thing is, when they do that you have no idea if it’s some shitty bodyshop looking for people with pulses or a cool company that you’d love to work for, so you have no opportunity to do research into the company before dedicating time to call someone. I don’t see the benefit of bypassing their services since recruiters are usually a decent foot in the door, but maybe I’m missing something
jacobyoder 8y ago
The recruiters I've known would document their outreach to you, and notify the company that'd we'd spoken. If they'd specifically contacted me, the I bypassed them, they may still get paid somehow (but I'd lose whatever bargaining skills they might bring to the process)>.
- leerob 8y ago
  Good to know. That makes sense.
- hash872 8y ago
  >If they'd specifically contacted me, the I bypassed them, they may still get paid somehow This is not true at all
  - jacobyoder 8y ago
    I've talked with a number of recruiters - 2 specifically indicated that they had arrangements with the end client - essentially an exclusivity deal. Once they revealed the client name to me, they'd let the client know, and if I made contact outside the recruiter, it was still an 'introduction' they'd get paid for if/when I was hired. Both of these were from a job search in the mid 2000s. I've spoken with many more generalist recruiters, none of whom ever indicated this sort of system. I don't think it's overly common, but it was an arrangement that 2 recruiters indicated they had. Perhaps they were extreme one-offs?

avip 8y ago

If someone approached you on LI to build "machine learning to make murder robots", do consider the (99%) possibility you're just a sample point in some social science "research".

opportune 8y ago
It wasn’t social science research, the recruiter was working for an actual robotics company with almost exclusively military customers
- kerng 8y ago
  Always be suspicious of anything like that. Probably wasn't the case here but nothing prevents one setting up a network of fake profiles to appear legit and get data from others. The Internet is a scary place.
  - opportune 8y ago
    That may be true but considering the job was based around where I live and the company has many news articles written about it and lots of publicly verifiable funding, I don't think it was fake. Of course like I said it's not like the recruiter was like "hey wanna make killer robots??" it's more that in doing research for the company and my own job description that's what it seemed likely I would be partially working on
wool_gather 8y ago
"murder robots" is most likely just parent's translation of the job description, for purposes of getting their point across.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mrburton 8y ago

There's also legal reasons why they don't advertise the company names. There's so much engineers don't know about recruiting. I'm an engineer and spent a lot of time talking to 100's of recruiters to understand what and why they do what they do. It's a) expensive for them b) they have a lot of legal things they must worry about and c) Engineers can be very very crappy to speak with when you are an recruiter. They will treat you like crap based on job title only.

opportune 8y ago
What are the legal reasons?
- kortilla 8y ago
  s/legal/money If a recruiter tells you the name of the company up front and you are really interested, you might ignore their message and just apply to the company in which case they don’t get their referral fee.
  - opportune 8y ago
    That’s not a legal reason
  - marcosdumay 8y ago
    Will you? Why would you avoid a person that is doing all the paper work, has some knowledge of the position already, and will have much more selling time with the employer than you could get? Just to save your future employer some money? I can imagine people going through the extra work of avoiding the recruiter if they think it will increase the odds of they getting the job (what means they think the recruiter is incompetent or dishonest), or if working with the recruiter is even more work than going without (what again means the recruiter is incompetent). But I can't imagine people doing that without a problem by the recruiter part. I can also imagine many developers sending the emails directly to the trash, and latter finding out about the position and applying by themselves. That could give one the wrong impression.
  - 8y ago

tropo 8y ago

That job sounds amazing. Lots of people would take lower pay and/or live out in a miserable location just for the chance to work on something like that. Clearly they didn't really hide anything, because you now know. Perhaps they wanted to hear your reaction on the phone to see if you'd be enthusiastic about the mission.

opportune 8y ago
good, that means I saved that job for someone else who wants to do it I guess