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The other side of the coin is seeing someone identify an "easy fix," have to spend hours reading about it, buying tools to accomplish it and having to do it sev

The other side of the coin is seeing someone identify an "easy fix," have to spend hours reading about it, buying tools to accomplish it and having to do it several times and maybe never get it quite right. I've seen this many times. Sometimes the right answer is: get an expert to look at it. You don't need a $2000 fridge, but you may need a $200 repair job to get it done fast and right.

segmondy 8y ago
Tools have an upfront cost, but they pay for themselves down the line. The first time you start fixing things it might take longer, but as time goes on you get better. You can learn so much by reading repair manuals & books, watching youtube videos, and being able to recognize patterns in other things you have repaired. Doing this will save you tens of thousands of dollars over the years. Furnace, A/C, House appliances, Home repairs, Furnitures, Cars, computers, even clothes & shoes...
- tcbawo 8y ago
  I think my comment to the parent post also applies here. I love to learn things and home repair is no exception. A lot of it is a skill that requires practice, though. Even if I don't end up doing the work (and I try to), at least I'll be less likely to get ripped off.
- fao_ 8y ago
  While this is true, it assumes that you not only have enough disposable income to waste on tools, but also that you are free enough from stress and have enough time to be able to do these things.
  - switchbak 8y ago
    "waste" seems a bit dismissive. When I was a poor student the only way I could keep my old cheap things working was to fix them myself. Often a tool can cost less than getting it repaired, paying for itself in one go. And there's many things that are straightforward to fix (bikes for example). It also takes time to arrange a repair, go there, drop it off, pick it up, realize they didn't fix the problem, do it again, etc. I often find doing this stuff myself can actually save time, and if things break on a weekend/holiday you can still salvage your plans.
    - greedo 8y ago
      Plus you can resell the tools when you're done. When I finished my basement, I bought a drywall lift that was around $100. Doing any sort of drywall without a lift is not easy, especially if you don't have a helper. When I was done with drywall, I was able to sell it on Craigslist for the original purchase price. I could have rented one, but that would have put time constraints on its use.
- askafriend 8y ago
  Spending that time on my career will net me more than worrying about or learning about something so infrequent and boring as fridge repair. A 20min job is 20mins often because it took hundreds - or in the case of professionals, thousands - of hours of learning, practicing, and experimenting. Of course everyone’s utility function is different, but my free time is at a heavy heavy premium. I’m happy to spend money where it gets me time in return.
  - segmondy 8y ago
    Other things outside of your career can teach you much and help you get better in your career. My growth today in IT has very little to do with IT, I'm taking much lessons from other industries. Want to learn to build reliable systems, serious study the airline industry, how do they build such reliable systems? Want to learn how to troubleshoot and solve problems fast? How does your typical ER work? There's much to learn from cross pollinating ideas from other fields. Most of us in IT are not just lovers of computers, but just builders. We are lucky to be born in this time in history, 100 yrs ago, we might be building cars or other sort of mechanical devices.
    - askafriend 8y ago
      Sure but I choose my hobbies based on my interests. I truly do not care about repairing fridges. Not even a little bit. Yes I’m an engineer. Still don’t care. Don’t care about repairing my car either. Some people feel so righteous about repair for some reason and it just doesn’t make sense to me. Why would someone want to impose how they spend their time on other people? If you enjoy it, that’s great keep doing it! Doesn’t mean I have to spend my time that way. I’m just going to get the thing fixed (even if it costs more money) and just move on with my life. To you point though, if I was really into something then I might be up for it! But fridges? Low on my list.
      - dvdkon 8y ago
        I get your point, but have to say I interpreted your previous post as "why would I do something that doesn't maximise profits?" I like messing with electronical/mechanical devices of all kinds, so I'll try to repair most things myself. If you dislike that kind of work, fine, but only caring about money is going to rub many people up the wrong way.
- faster 8y ago
  One of the most valuable things my dad taught me was that it's hard to break something so badly that it can't be repaired. That's not true of everything any more (I have a decent electronics bench, but I won't even try any but the most basic cell phone repairs), but for your list (Furnace, A/C, House appliances, Home repairs, Furnitures, Cars, computers, even clothes & shoes), I'd rather repair than replace. It is harder to teach kids this attitude now. So many things that interest them are seam-welded or potted or otherwise inaccessible. It's still possible though. My daughter and I disassembled old DVD drives and made laser pointers from the diodes that still worked. She was excited to take things apart after school.
- lh7777 8y ago
  I recently discovered my local tool library -- seems like a really great idea. For a small annual (suggested) donation, you can borrow just about any tool a homeowner could reasonably expect to use (except heavy machinery, of course). I live in a townhouse with no garage and limited storage space, so I simply can't justify keeping a lot of tools around that I might need again someday. The tool library solves that problem and will definitely save me money vs. buying new or renting at Home Depot. If you can't borrow a tool or need it semi-regularly, I'd recommend checking out Harbor Freight if there's one nearby instead of going to the local hardware or big box store. Their tools are not the highest quality, but unless you're a contractor or serious craftsperson, they'll probably work just fine at a much lower price point.
tcbawo 8y ago
The problem is that the experts have been priced out of the market and have been replaced with salespeople.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  I'm not sure "priced out" is the right description. If you own a white goods store you can employ more sales people and grab more profit, or employ expensive engineers and reduce your profit (but help save the Earth). Its simple self-centred greed really.
sh87 8y ago
For a scrupulous 'expert', there's more money to be made by selling you a new product. Or if there's likely to be recurring repairs. One way I think, to safeguard against this is to have maintenance contracts. But i know no expert who's williing to take me up on that.
- sarabande 8y ago
  I think you mean "unscrupulous".
- tyingq 8y ago
  HVAC repair shops are especially bad in this area. They will sell complete new systems, when you just need a new compressor, or even a capacitor.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    I think everyone should stock their start/run capacitor for each of their compressors. That's pretty literally a plug and play blind change-out item before even calling a tech out.
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Maintenance contracts are also quite popular since they can charge more for them and amortize the cost over lots of sales. Extended warranties are just one part of this, and often result in the customer paying for something they don't need (how many people have warranties and choose to replace instead of use the warranty?). The best bet, IMO, is to get advice from someone who doesn't directly benefit from a bad product, but is still an expert. For example, don't take the advice of a salesman, but instead a repair guy friend.
celticninja 8y ago
I spent £150 getting a new screen on an iPhone 3g when they were around 6 months old. It was a decent job and I was happy enough with the fix. But then I cracked it again, so I did the fix/replacement myself, it wasn't as good as the £150 job, but then I knew how to do it. I subsequently started repairing other people's phones and most of them were as good as the £150 repair job I had done. So yes a professional fix can be faster but it depends how often you may need to fox something. So a fridge I may expect to need to repair once a decade is perhaps best for the professionals, but I have e stated fixing my own washing machine and tumble dryers because they cost maybe £200 new and a fix can be in the region of £60-£120. So 2 or 3 repairs and I may as well have bought a new one, fixing it myself usually means a quicker job and always means a cheaper job. Plus now I am pretty certain that if I could call someone to fix it then I could do it myself.
andrei_says_ 8y ago
The issue is that a regular new fridge is around $500 and the $200 repair may or may not resolve the problem.
zaroth 8y ago
The thing is, once you own a house, the number of things that need an hour here or there increases quite dramatically. In the last year I’ve done maintenance work on the dishwasher (twice), ice maker, furnace (fuse), duct work (baffle), two clogged drains (love those air-pump drain cleaners!), sliding door (leveling adjustment), vacuum (broken plastic part), doorbell (new button), several light switches (new dimmers), stopping drafts (new weatherstripping), sump pump (burned out wiring cap), painting and spackling, 2 toilet flappers, dryer thermostat and humidistat, and hanging a new flat screen. That’s just top of my head. And there was plenty of bigger stuff I outsourced but could have potentially taken on like installing a new front door, and seal coating the driveway. If I hired an “expert” for all of that it would have been nearly $10,000. And next year it’ll just be another list the same length of all different stuff.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Now add the time tidying up or correcting after the "expert". As a house owner it is far easier to build a list of trades people you won't use again, than the one to hang on to.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    My favorite contractor went and retired on me :-/ Last major job I had done (major bathroom redo well beyond what I was ready to tackle) took about a year to find someone and then they did an OK job but just horrible communications, etc. In other words, par for the course.

segmondy 8y ago

Tools have an upfront cost, but they pay for themselves down the line. The first time you start fixing things it might take longer, but as time goes on you get better. You can learn so much by reading repair manuals & books, watching youtube videos, and being able to recognize patterns in other things you have repaired. Doing this will save you tens of thousands of dollars over the years. Furnace, A/C, House appliances, Home repairs, Furnitures, Cars, computers, even clothes & shoes...

tcbawo 8y ago
I think my comment to the parent post also applies here. I love to learn things and home repair is no exception. A lot of it is a skill that requires practice, though. Even if I don't end up doing the work (and I try to), at least I'll be less likely to get ripped off.
fao_ 8y ago
While this is true, it assumes that you not only have enough disposable income to waste on tools, but also that you are free enough from stress and have enough time to be able to do these things.
- switchbak 8y ago
  "waste" seems a bit dismissive. When I was a poor student the only way I could keep my old cheap things working was to fix them myself. Often a tool can cost less than getting it repaired, paying for itself in one go. And there's many things that are straightforward to fix (bikes for example). It also takes time to arrange a repair, go there, drop it off, pick it up, realize they didn't fix the problem, do it again, etc. I often find doing this stuff myself can actually save time, and if things break on a weekend/holiday you can still salvage your plans.
  - greedo 8y ago
    Plus you can resell the tools when you're done. When I finished my basement, I bought a drywall lift that was around $100. Doing any sort of drywall without a lift is not easy, especially if you don't have a helper. When I was done with drywall, I was able to sell it on Craigslist for the original purchase price. I could have rented one, but that would have put time constraints on its use.
askafriend 8y ago
Spending that time on my career will net me more than worrying about or learning about something so infrequent and boring as fridge repair. A 20min job is 20mins often because it took hundreds - or in the case of professionals, thousands - of hours of learning, practicing, and experimenting. Of course everyone’s utility function is different, but my free time is at a heavy heavy premium. I’m happy to spend money where it gets me time in return.
- segmondy 8y ago
  Other things outside of your career can teach you much and help you get better in your career. My growth today in IT has very little to do with IT, I'm taking much lessons from other industries. Want to learn to build reliable systems, serious study the airline industry, how do they build such reliable systems? Want to learn how to troubleshoot and solve problems fast? How does your typical ER work? There's much to learn from cross pollinating ideas from other fields. Most of us in IT are not just lovers of computers, but just builders. We are lucky to be born in this time in history, 100 yrs ago, we might be building cars or other sort of mechanical devices.
  - askafriend 8y ago
    Sure but I choose my hobbies based on my interests. I truly do not care about repairing fridges. Not even a little bit. Yes I’m an engineer. Still don’t care. Don’t care about repairing my car either. Some people feel so righteous about repair for some reason and it just doesn’t make sense to me. Why would someone want to impose how they spend their time on other people? If you enjoy it, that’s great keep doing it! Doesn’t mean I have to spend my time that way. I’m just going to get the thing fixed (even if it costs more money) and just move on with my life. To you point though, if I was really into something then I might be up for it! But fridges? Low on my list.
    - dvdkon 8y ago
      I get your point, but have to say I interpreted your previous post as "why would I do something that doesn't maximise profits?" I like messing with electronical/mechanical devices of all kinds, so I'll try to repair most things myself. If you dislike that kind of work, fine, but only caring about money is going to rub many people up the wrong way.
faster 8y ago
One of the most valuable things my dad taught me was that it's hard to break something so badly that it can't be repaired. That's not true of everything any more (I have a decent electronics bench, but I won't even try any but the most basic cell phone repairs), but for your list (Furnace, A/C, House appliances, Home repairs, Furnitures, Cars, computers, even clothes & shoes), I'd rather repair than replace. It is harder to teach kids this attitude now. So many things that interest them are seam-welded or potted or otherwise inaccessible. It's still possible though. My daughter and I disassembled old DVD drives and made laser pointers from the diodes that still worked. She was excited to take things apart after school.
lh7777 8y ago
I recently discovered my local tool library -- seems like a really great idea. For a small annual (suggested) donation, you can borrow just about any tool a homeowner could reasonably expect to use (except heavy machinery, of course). I live in a townhouse with no garage and limited storage space, so I simply can't justify keeping a lot of tools around that I might need again someday. The tool library solves that problem and will definitely save me money vs. buying new or renting at Home Depot. If you can't borrow a tool or need it semi-regularly, I'd recommend checking out Harbor Freight if there's one nearby instead of going to the local hardware or big box store. Their tools are not the highest quality, but unless you're a contractor or serious craftsperson, they'll probably work just fine at a much lower price point.

tcbawo 8y ago

The problem is that the experts have been priced out of the market and have been replaced with salespeople.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
I'm not sure "priced out" is the right description. If you own a white goods store you can employ more sales people and grab more profit, or employ expensive engineers and reduce your profit (but help save the Earth). Its simple self-centred greed really.

sh87 8y ago

For a scrupulous 'expert', there's more money to be made by selling you a new product. Or if there's likely to be recurring repairs. One way I think, to safeguard against this is to have maintenance contracts. But i know no expert who's williing to take me up on that.

sarabande 8y ago
I think you mean "unscrupulous".
tyingq 8y ago
HVAC repair shops are especially bad in this area. They will sell complete new systems, when you just need a new compressor, or even a capacitor.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  I think everyone should stock their start/run capacitor for each of their compressors. That's pretty literally a plug and play blind change-out item before even calling a tech out.
beatgammit 8y ago
Maintenance contracts are also quite popular since they can charge more for them and amortize the cost over lots of sales. Extended warranties are just one part of this, and often result in the customer paying for something they don't need (how many people have warranties and choose to replace instead of use the warranty?). The best bet, IMO, is to get advice from someone who doesn't directly benefit from a bad product, but is still an expert. For example, don't take the advice of a salesman, but instead a repair guy friend.

celticninja 8y ago

I spent £150 getting a new screen on an iPhone 3g when they were around 6 months old. It was a decent job and I was happy enough with the fix. But then I cracked it again, so I did the fix/replacement myself, it wasn't as good as the £150 job, but then I knew how to do it. I subsequently started repairing other people's phones and most of them were as good as the £150 repair job I had done. So yes a professional fix can be faster but it depends how often you may need to fox something. So a fridge I may expect to need to repair once a decade is perhaps best for the professionals, but I have e stated fixing my own washing machine and tumble dryers because they cost maybe £200 new and a fix can be in the region of £60-£120. So 2 or 3 repairs and I may as well have bought a new one, fixing it myself usually means a quicker job and always means a cheaper job. Plus now I am pretty certain that if I could call someone to fix it then I could do it myself.

andrei_says_ 8y ago

The issue is that a regular new fridge is around $500 and the $200 repair may or may not resolve the problem.

zaroth 8y ago

The thing is, once you own a house, the number of things that need an hour here or there increases quite dramatically. In the last year I’ve done maintenance work on the dishwasher (twice), ice maker, furnace (fuse), duct work (baffle), two clogged drains (love those air-pump drain cleaners!), sliding door (leveling adjustment), vacuum (broken plastic part), doorbell (new button), several light switches (new dimmers), stopping drafts (new weatherstripping), sump pump (burned out wiring cap), painting and spackling, 2 toilet flappers, dryer thermostat and humidistat, and hanging a new flat screen. That’s just top of my head. And there was plenty of bigger stuff I outsourced but could have potentially taken on like installing a new front door, and seal coating the driveway. If I hired an “expert” for all of that it would have been nearly $10,000. And next year it’ll just be another list the same length of all different stuff.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Now add the time tidying up or correcting after the "expert". As a house owner it is far easier to build a list of trades people you won't use again, than the one to hang on to.
- ghaff 8y ago
  My favorite contractor went and retired on me :-/ Last major job I had done (major bathroom redo well beyond what I was ready to tackle) took about a year to find someone and then they did an OK job but just horrible communications, etc. In other words, par for the course.