6 ms·

The best way to beat the system is to take advantage of the massive credit card reward bonuses that US banks offer. I've churned credit cards since 2012 and hav

The best way to beat the system is to take advantage of the massive credit card reward bonuses that US banks offer. I've churned credit cards since 2012 and have nearly all my personal travel paid for by points every year, including international business/first class flights, luxury hotels, and cash for travel... Best thing is credit card rewards are not taxed because they are considered a rebate, which is quite amazing especially in a high tax state like CA!

chris_mc 8y ago
You're just paying for that through increased prices on the products you buy. You're not beating any system, no one beats the system except for the top .001%.
- the_jeremy 8y ago
  I would argue that this level of dedication would be within the top 1% of credit card users and that probably is beating the system. Product prices are increased, but since the price increase is spread out among everyone (including those who pay cash), it seems likely to me he makes a good return. Maybe not $/hr, though.
- casual_slacker 8y ago
  Seems like game theory? If everyone else is playing, then it's better to play than abstain. Also I'm not sure about "higher prices", in my town there's two convenience stores across from each other, one with CC fee and one with no fee, same prices otherwise, so I just go to the no fee one. Maybe it gets worked in somewhere but it's not as fair/efficient as it could be.
- throwaway-1283 8y ago
  I am though, since everyone who doesn't play this game is subsidizing my free flights
  - tibiapejagala 8y ago
    So the poor pay for your flights.
jacquesc 8y ago
Good job beating the system. If you tracked all the hours and mental energy you spent on these tasks vs the amount of money returned, what do you think the hourly rate would come to?
- garmaine 8y ago
  Something embarrassingly small. It’s not worth it.
  - throwaway-1283 8y ago
    I took a first class flight to Japan during peak Christmas season on points from one credit card that I earned the bonus on by paying my rent with a credit card...it would've cost $15k out of pocket (even economy flights are almost $1000 one way during the holidays...)
    - Axsuul 8y ago
      I am always hesitant on valuing redemptions for the price that would've been paid for the ticket, primarily because no one in their right mind would pay that price in the first place.
      - throwaway-1283 8y ago
        You can tell pretty easily who paid and didn't pay. Don't think the Japanese businessmen sitting in first used points.
        Axsuul 8y ago
        But they still don't pay the full fare. They are atrociously high so that they can be heavily discounted, especially when it comes to corporate contracts.
  - alexhutcheson 8y ago
    Eh, even if you don't value airline/hotel points, you can pretty easily get ~$500/card in value in sign up bonus just for opening the card and using it for expenses you were going to incur anyway. You need to be discerning about what you apply for and only apply for the good deals, but it really doesn't take much time.
loeg 8y ago
I mean, yeah, that's good for a limited pool of consumers (myself included, as well), but really we're just being subsidized by other consumers who pay with cash, debit, or even credit cards that don't generate as high rewards. There's no reason Visa and Mastercard (as well as the banks) should be able to rent-seek the insanely high fees that they do on most retail transactions.
- throwaway-1283 8y ago
  I mean as a private individual I have no power to change what Visa or Mastercard do, so it makes no sense to "protest" by using cash (which actually hurts me since I'd be the one subsidizing others) instead of just trying to extract as much value as possible from the banking and payment industries.
  - empath75 8y ago
    You're not extracting that value from the banks. You're extracting it from poor people.
    - gruez 8y ago
      Couldn't you say the same about taking advantage of any offer that poor people can't (or are less likely to) take advantage of? eg. buying toilet paper every 6 months when there's a deep discount, rather than buying small packs weekly (which poor people are more likely to do because they don't have the savings to buy 6 months of toilet paper upfront).
  - loeg 8y ago
    > I mean as a private individual I have no power to change what Visa or Mastercard do Well, sort of. Enough bad publicity and public shaming has some impact on corporate bad behavior. > it makes no sense to "protest" by using cash I agree — I never suggested that.
stefan_ 8y ago
You are playing a mini-game to increase Visa & co.'s profit margin.
nickjj 8y ago
What's the context tho? If you spend $250,000 a year on credit card purchases and get 4% back on everything you've cashed in on $10,000 bonuses, but you had to spend $250,000 to get that. It sounds like one of those conversations where it's like "yeah, just buy a car because you can write it off on your business account", so while you do get a discount on your taxes, you still had to pay for the car which is a net negative on how much $ you have in your pocket at the end vs not buying the car and paying more taxes.
- streptomycin 8y ago
  The big money is in sign-up bonuses, like "spend $3000 in the first 3 months and get 50000 points, which is worth $500 cash or even more towards travel".

chris_mc 8y ago

You're just paying for that through increased prices on the products you buy. You're not beating any system, no one beats the system except for the top .001%.

the_jeremy 8y ago
I would argue that this level of dedication would be within the top 1% of credit card users and that probably is beating the system. Product prices are increased, but since the price increase is spread out among everyone (including those who pay cash), it seems likely to me he makes a good return. Maybe not $/hr, though.
casual_slacker 8y ago
Seems like game theory? If everyone else is playing, then it's better to play than abstain. Also I'm not sure about "higher prices", in my town there's two convenience stores across from each other, one with CC fee and one with no fee, same prices otherwise, so I just go to the no fee one. Maybe it gets worked in somewhere but it's not as fair/efficient as it could be.
throwaway-1283 8y ago
I am though, since everyone who doesn't play this game is subsidizing my free flights
- tibiapejagala 8y ago
  So the poor pay for your flights.

jacquesc 8y ago

Good job beating the system. If you tracked all the hours and mental energy you spent on these tasks vs the amount of money returned, what do you think the hourly rate would come to?

garmaine 8y ago
Something embarrassingly small. It’s not worth it.
- throwaway-1283 8y ago
  I took a first class flight to Japan during peak Christmas season on points from one credit card that I earned the bonus on by paying my rent with a credit card...it would've cost $15k out of pocket (even economy flights are almost $1000 one way during the holidays...)
  - Axsuul 8y ago
    I am always hesitant on valuing redemptions for the price that would've been paid for the ticket, primarily because no one in their right mind would pay that price in the first place.
    - throwaway-1283 8y ago
      You can tell pretty easily who paid and didn't pay. Don't think the Japanese businessmen sitting in first used points.
      - Axsuul 8y ago
        But they still don't pay the full fare. They are atrociously high so that they can be heavily discounted, especially when it comes to corporate contracts.
- alexhutcheson 8y ago
  Eh, even if you don't value airline/hotel points, you can pretty easily get ~$500/card in value in sign up bonus just for opening the card and using it for expenses you were going to incur anyway. You need to be discerning about what you apply for and only apply for the good deals, but it really doesn't take much time.

loeg 8y ago

I mean, yeah, that's good for a limited pool of consumers (myself included, as well), but really we're just being subsidized by other consumers who pay with cash, debit, or even credit cards that don't generate as high rewards. There's no reason Visa and Mastercard (as well as the banks) should be able to rent-seek the insanely high fees that they do on most retail transactions.

throwaway-1283 8y ago
I mean as a private individual I have no power to change what Visa or Mastercard do, so it makes no sense to "protest" by using cash (which actually hurts me since I'd be the one subsidizing others) instead of just trying to extract as much value as possible from the banking and payment industries.
- empath75 8y ago
  You're not extracting that value from the banks. You're extracting it from poor people.
  - gruez 8y ago
    Couldn't you say the same about taking advantage of any offer that poor people can't (or are less likely to) take advantage of? eg. buying toilet paper every 6 months when there's a deep discount, rather than buying small packs weekly (which poor people are more likely to do because they don't have the savings to buy 6 months of toilet paper upfront).
- loeg 8y ago
  > I mean as a private individual I have no power to change what Visa or Mastercard do Well, sort of. Enough bad publicity and public shaming has some impact on corporate bad behavior. > it makes no sense to "protest" by using cash I agree — I never suggested that.

stefan_ 8y ago

You are playing a mini-game to increase Visa & co.'s profit margin.

nickjj 8y ago

What's the context tho? If you spend $250,000 a year on credit card purchases and get 4% back on everything you've cashed in on $10,000 bonuses, but you had to spend $250,000 to get that. It sounds like one of those conversations where it's like "yeah, just buy a car because you can write it off on your business account", so while you do get a discount on your taxes, you still had to pay for the car which is a net negative on how much $ you have in your pocket at the end vs not buying the car and paying more taxes.

streptomycin 8y ago
The big money is in sign-up bonuses, like "spend $3000 in the first 3 months and get 50000 points, which is worth $500 cash or even more towards travel".