4 ms·

I can't find the source, but I read somewhere that the average length of ownership of yachts over 60ft is only 9 months. Or something, maybe it's 100ft & 18 mon

by iguy 8y ago

I can't find the source, but I read somewhere that the average length of ownership of yachts over 60ft is only 9 months. Or something, maybe it's 100ft & 18 months. But astonishingly short. Which points to these not being well-considered deeply researched purchases. So I can see instagram playing a pretty big role.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
I guess it becomes an arms race. Hard to be proud of your 100ft yacht when everyone else in Monaco harbour has long ago traded up?
bedhead 8y ago
Old saying about boats is the two best days of ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Similar things have been said about aircraft and marriage. Come to think of it I recall there being a (gender neutral!) quote that provides sound financial advice regarding all three...
- moonlighter 8y ago
  To some people the day you sell it is the better one because then they can buy an ever bigger one.
vidarh 8y ago
I'm assuming what the article says about operating costs is part of it. If you search around, you can find fully operational small cruise ships for a few million. The hulls and engines etc. last enough that the cost of these ships, whether outfitted for use as luxury yachts or cruise ships is dominated massively by operating cost. So you can dream of being able to drop X million to own a dream of being on a yacht all the time. Then you realize you're not on it all the time, because you have a life, and whether you're on it or not you're dropping close to X million a year to keep the crew on hand and keep the yacht ready, and if you want to offset that, you're now running a yacht charter business.
- 725686 8y ago
  That's why there is a saying: "Don't own anything that flies, floats, or fuks."
  - coldtea 8y ago
    That's for the poor. Billionaires don't care about the "rest of the year" maintenance costs.
  - erikig 8y ago
    This gave me a good chuckle!
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    It's OK, you can swear here. Although I always found "fornicates" more humorous.
    - taude 8y ago
      It's an actual quote from a movie or something. I've heard it before.... so I think the context of the swear is in align with the quote.
    - taude 8y ago
      I just looked it up, it was a quote on the HBO show, Ballers. (Not sure if they originated it, though, but that's where I saw it.)
    - iguy 8y ago
      Anyone know the origin of this, BTW? I can't tell whether this economist obit. is saying that Felix Dennis invented it: https://www.economist.com/obituary/2014/07/03/felix-dennis https://www.economist.com/obituary/2014/07/03/felix-dennis
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Meh, if you have $100b, is your life really going to change if you lose half of it or more? No.
chasd00 8y ago
It's sexist to say but I bet a lot get bought to impress a wife or gf then the season ends and it goes up for sale.
- thrill 8y ago
  I would have scoffed at this once upon a time, but I've seen a guy buy a brand new Porsche on a drunken impress-the girlfriend spree that she drove for a few months before "trading up" herself.
michelb 8y ago
I work for a client that designs and builds these 100MM+ yachts. They just can't build them fast enough to keep up with demand. Some of their clients buy a yacht, and sell it within a year for a hefty profit, then buy a new one, repeat. There is quite a business in selling 'used' yachts simply because it takes 2-4 years to build a new one.
- iguy 8y ago
  Do you have any estimate of how many buyers actually want to sail around / host parties, and for how many it's some kind of tax evasion / money laundering scheme? I don't know any details but always wonder about this... an easy-to-move super-expensive asset, physically in Cannes but legally in the Bahamas... there must be many schemes.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    I’ve heard of similar VAT avoidance schemes where the vehicle/vessel gets returned or « returned » back to the tax-free base and another lease gets drawn up before VAT would be owed.
  - michelb 8y ago
    That kind of information is not something I'm privy to, but I'd say it's about 50/50. It's definitely a laundering scheme for many. They deal with brokers obviously, and those just want a cut, never mind where it came from. But they deliver to a lot of Russian oligarchs. I bet there are tons of schemes.
- thrill 8y ago
  Indeed. Some people have a talent for taking a risk on the front end of buying something they know they can flip for a profit, and that something may even be just a place in line. Years ago I helped start a corporate jet manufacturer (that went bankrupt after investment dried up after 9/11). One of our first deposit holders (a "mere" $10K as I recall) flipped his early position in line after about 18 months for a cool million dollars. He tied up for a relatively short time a relatively trivial amount of money for something someone else did most of the work in developing and promoting. His bet was our effort would be successful enough to simply sell his early spot in line. I recall thinking at the time that was why he was rich and I wasn't - I could have bet the same small amount and made the same money, and I had the insider knowledge to guess we'd do a good job early on. Yet I didn't have the idea to do that.

by iguy 8y ago

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

I guess it becomes an arms race. Hard to be proud of your 100ft yacht when everyone else in Monaco harbour has long ago traded up?

bedhead 8y ago

Old saying about boats is the two best days of ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Similar things have been said about aircraft and marriage. Come to think of it I recall there being a (gender neutral!) quote that provides sound financial advice regarding all three...
moonlighter 8y ago
To some people the day you sell it is the better one because then they can buy an ever bigger one.

vidarh 8y ago

I'm assuming what the article says about operating costs is part of it. If you search around, you can find fully operational small cruise ships for a few million. The hulls and engines etc. last enough that the cost of these ships, whether outfitted for use as luxury yachts or cruise ships is dominated massively by operating cost. So you can dream of being able to drop X million to own a dream of being on a yacht all the time. Then you realize you're not on it all the time, because you have a life, and whether you're on it or not you're dropping close to X million a year to keep the crew on hand and keep the yacht ready, and if you want to offset that, you're now running a yacht charter business.

725686 8y ago
That's why there is a saying: "Don't own anything that flies, floats, or fuks."
- coldtea 8y ago
  That's for the poor. Billionaires don't care about the "rest of the year" maintenance costs.
- erikig 8y ago
  This gave me a good chuckle!
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  It's OK, you can swear here. Although I always found "fornicates" more humorous.
  - taude 8y ago
    It's an actual quote from a movie or something. I've heard it before.... so I think the context of the swear is in align with the quote.
  - taude 8y ago
    I just looked it up, it was a quote on the HBO show, Ballers. (Not sure if they originated it, though, but that's where I saw it.)
  - iguy 8y ago
    Anyone know the origin of this, BTW? I can't tell whether this economist obit. is saying that Felix Dennis invented it: https://www.economist.com/obituary/2014/07/03/felix-dennis https://www.economist.com/obituary/2014/07/03/felix-dennis
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Meh, if you have $100b, is your life really going to change if you lose half of it or more? No.

chasd00 8y ago

It's sexist to say but I bet a lot get bought to impress a wife or gf then the season ends and it goes up for sale.

thrill 8y ago
I would have scoffed at this once upon a time, but I've seen a guy buy a brand new Porsche on a drunken impress-the girlfriend spree that she drove for a few months before "trading up" herself.

michelb 8y ago

I work for a client that designs and builds these 100MM+ yachts. They just can't build them fast enough to keep up with demand. Some of their clients buy a yacht, and sell it within a year for a hefty profit, then buy a new one, repeat. There is quite a business in selling 'used' yachts simply because it takes 2-4 years to build a new one.

iguy 8y ago
Do you have any estimate of how many buyers actually want to sail around / host parties, and for how many it's some kind of tax evasion / money laundering scheme? I don't know any details but always wonder about this... an easy-to-move super-expensive asset, physically in Cannes but legally in the Bahamas... there must be many schemes.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I’ve heard of similar VAT avoidance schemes where the vehicle/vessel gets returned or « returned » back to the tax-free base and another lease gets drawn up before VAT would be owed.
- michelb 8y ago
  That kind of information is not something I'm privy to, but I'd say it's about 50/50. It's definitely a laundering scheme for many. They deal with brokers obviously, and those just want a cut, never mind where it came from. But they deliver to a lot of Russian oligarchs. I bet there are tons of schemes.
thrill 8y ago
Indeed. Some people have a talent for taking a risk on the front end of buying something they know they can flip for a profit, and that something may even be just a place in line. Years ago I helped start a corporate jet manufacturer (that went bankrupt after investment dried up after 9/11). One of our first deposit holders (a "mere" $10K as I recall) flipped his early position in line after about 18 months for a cool million dollars. He tied up for a relatively short time a relatively trivial amount of money for something someone else did most of the work in developing and promoting. His bet was our effort would be successful enough to simply sell his early spot in line. I recall thinking at the time that was why he was rich and I wasn't - I could have bet the same small amount and made the same money, and I had the insider knowledge to guess we'd do a good job early on. Yet I didn't have the idea to do that.