4 ms·

>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless it's for a football stadium.

mc32 8y ago
This is true, but sadly it’s democratic and lots of fans turn out in support. I don’t get it, but that’s probably because I’m not a pro sports fan.
billman 8y ago
Is it just a coincidence that the Giants and Jets both play in New Jersey. Maybe Amazon should just move across the river and call it the New York office.
- sethhochberg 8y ago
  This was one of the common critiques of the LIC HQ2 plan - LIC doesn't _need_ Amazon to continue redeveloping well, but a nearby city like Newark gets access to the same talent pool and a big anchor tech campus could do a lot more good there. If you're gonna throw tax incentives around, it seems prudent to do the most good with them. (Granted, Newark is in NJ... and the proposed tax deal was from NY. Thinking as adjacent states instead of a region bites.)
JohnFen 8y ago
> Unless it's for a football stadium. You haven't seen the perpetual and energetic fights in my part of the nation about public funding for football (and other professional sports) stadiums. Sports businesses trying to get tax money to be spent in order to enhance their profitability is absolutely something that brings out the opposition.
- humanrebar 8y ago
  Correct. St. Louis and San Diego both let pro football clubs leave recently.
  - ennisthemennis 8y ago
    It's more complicated than just St. Louis and San Diego not wanting to put up money. The owners of the respective teams wanted to move to LA pretty much no matter what, and requested particularly absurd things so they could pretend they tried
    - ThirdFoundation 8y ago
      I think Oakland would be a better example of a city not caving in to giving to Raiders money to build a stadium... So Las Vegas gave them a lot of money.
adventured 8y ago
Hundreds of thousands of people don't turn out for a parade for Amazon. They do when pro teams win championships. Football stadiums get subsidized because football is extraordinarily, wildly popular with most of the people that pay taxes. Those taxpayers spend massive sums of money on sports every year, across the NFL / MLB / NBA / NHL / MLS / NCAA. Those people pay most of the taxes that fund the government that then pays for the stadium subsidies. Taxpayers love sports, love spending money on sports, and the majority of taxpayers are clearly fine with subsidizing sports at all levels. They vote with their dollars and... votes, over and over again, year after year, decade after decade, to keep supporting sports subsidization. See: football attendance and ticket spending on NFL and college games annually, as well as sports packages for television, merchandise sales, etc.
- loeg 8y ago
  You've got it backwards. Sports are very popular, and stadium-lovers are vocal with their representatives. But they are an outspoken minority. The majority of tax-payers do not support subsidizing stadiums. And stadiums will get built regardless of whether the city gives them free money, because they're profitable. So why subsidize private profits from public coffers?
- imnotlost 8y ago
  IT never works out for the city/tax payer. Stop Padding Billionaires’ Profits by Paying for Sports Stadiums https://ritholtz.com/2018/07/stop-padding-billionaires-profits/ https://ritholtz.com/2018/07/stop-padding-billionaires-profi...
- trizzak 8y ago
  Being a sports fan does not imply you are happy with tax dollars being used to fund stadiums.
khill 8y ago
Well, the NY football teams play in a New Jersey swamp so that didn't really work out for NYC either.
- addicted 8y ago
  Other than the fact that stadiums are known to cost cities a lot of money without returns and NYC gets to avoid those costs and benefit from the branding.
loeg 8y ago
That trend seems to be (gradually) changing, although yeah, it seems like many municipalities still let themselves get shaken down by stadium-owners.
danans 8y ago
And hot off the press, here's an article on that very subject in Memphis, TN: https://granolashotgun.com/2019/02/14/easy-payments/ https://granolashotgun.com/2019/02/14/easy-payments/

mc32 8y ago

This is true, but sadly it’s democratic and lots of fans turn out in support. I don’t get it, but that’s probably because I’m not a pro sports fan.

billman 8y ago

Is it just a coincidence that the Giants and Jets both play in New Jersey. Maybe Amazon should just move across the river and call it the New York office.

sethhochberg 8y ago
This was one of the common critiques of the LIC HQ2 plan - LIC doesn't _need_ Amazon to continue redeveloping well, but a nearby city like Newark gets access to the same talent pool and a big anchor tech campus could do a lot more good there. If you're gonna throw tax incentives around, it seems prudent to do the most good with them. (Granted, Newark is in NJ... and the proposed tax deal was from NY. Thinking as adjacent states instead of a region bites.)

JohnFen 8y ago

> Unless it's for a football stadium. You haven't seen the perpetual and energetic fights in my part of the nation about public funding for football (and other professional sports) stadiums. Sports businesses trying to get tax money to be spent in order to enhance their profitability is absolutely something that brings out the opposition.

humanrebar 8y ago
Correct. St. Louis and San Diego both let pro football clubs leave recently.
- ennisthemennis 8y ago
  It's more complicated than just St. Louis and San Diego not wanting to put up money. The owners of the respective teams wanted to move to LA pretty much no matter what, and requested particularly absurd things so they could pretend they tried
  - ThirdFoundation 8y ago
    I think Oakland would be a better example of a city not caving in to giving to Raiders money to build a stadium... So Las Vegas gave them a lot of money.

adventured 8y ago

Hundreds of thousands of people don't turn out for a parade for Amazon. They do when pro teams win championships. Football stadiums get subsidized because football is extraordinarily, wildly popular with most of the people that pay taxes. Those taxpayers spend massive sums of money on sports every year, across the NFL / MLB / NBA / NHL / MLS / NCAA. Those people pay most of the taxes that fund the government that then pays for the stadium subsidies. Taxpayers love sports, love spending money on sports, and the majority of taxpayers are clearly fine with subsidizing sports at all levels. They vote with their dollars and... votes, over and over again, year after year, decade after decade, to keep supporting sports subsidization. See: football attendance and ticket spending on NFL and college games annually, as well as sports packages for television, merchandise sales, etc.

loeg 8y ago
You've got it backwards. Sports are very popular, and stadium-lovers are vocal with their representatives. But they are an outspoken minority. The majority of tax-payers do not support subsidizing stadiums. And stadiums will get built regardless of whether the city gives them free money, because they're profitable. So why subsidize private profits from public coffers?
imnotlost 8y ago
IT never works out for the city/tax payer. Stop Padding Billionaires’ Profits by Paying for Sports Stadiums https://ritholtz.com/2018/07/stop-padding-billionaires-profits/ https://ritholtz.com/2018/07/stop-padding-billionaires-profi...
trizzak 8y ago
Being a sports fan does not imply you are happy with tax dollars being used to fund stadiums.

khill 8y ago

Well, the NY football teams play in a New Jersey swamp so that didn't really work out for NYC either.

addicted 8y ago
Other than the fact that stadiums are known to cost cities a lot of money without returns and NYC gets to avoid those costs and benefit from the branding.

loeg 8y ago

That trend seems to be (gradually) changing, although yeah, it seems like many municipalities still let themselves get shaken down by stadium-owners.

danans 8y ago

And hot off the press, here's an article on that very subject in Memphis, TN: https://granolashotgun.com/2019/02/14/easy-payments/ https://granolashotgun.com/2019/02/14/easy-payments/