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Hi HN, DeskGap is another try to build an lightweight alternative to Electron. Compared to the existing attempts [0, 1], I choose not to go that far and bundle

Hi HN, DeskGap is another try to build an lightweight alternative to Electron. Compared to the existing attempts [0, 1], I choose not to go that far and bundle a real Node.js with it[2]. And to battle test the framework, I wrapped squoosh[3] into a desktop app[4] with DeskGap, and successfully submitted it to the app stores. [0] https://github.com/pojala/electrino https://github.com/pojala/electrino [1] https://github.com/jscherer92/Quark https://github.com/jscherer92/Quark [2] https://deskgap.com/#faq https://deskgap.com/#faq [3] https://squoosh.app https://squoosh.app [4] https://github.com/patr0nus/Pym/ https://github.com/patr0nus/Pym/

kodablah 8y ago
Howdy, can you compare the system-side webview with https://github.com/zserge/webview https://github.com/zserge/webview? Specifically, what control do you use on windows, MSHTML or have you incorporated the recently-freed-from-UWP (I think) Edge API? EDIT: Appears the latter [0]. Great work. I wonder how this affects bundling...does this make it a UWP app? 0 - https://github.com/patr0nus/DeskGap/blob/master/core/src/win/webview.cpp https://github.com/patr0nus/DeskGap/blob/master/core/src/win...
- patr0nus 8y ago
  No it's still a Win32 app. As you supposed, It's freed from UWP[0] ;). [0]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/communitytoolkit/controls/wpf-winforms/webview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/communitytoolkit/co...
- DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
  What happens if you run an EdgeHTML-using application on Windows 7 or 8? I noticed that the EdgeHTML control in WinForms and WPF is not a drop-in replacement for the old WebBrowser control (i.e. it isn’t a subclass, so you must use one or the other, but Microsoft didn’t document the best way to switch between controls based on feature-detection).
  - chrismorgan 8y ago
    When you try to call the API, it will fail as it’s not there. The precise failure mode will depend on the application. One possibility would be to crash outright. Another would be to try the EdgeHTML control, then fall back to MSHTML. Yet another would be to try EdgeHTML, then complain in an alert, notifying the user of the requirement for the new version of Windows.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
alexandernst 8y ago
How is Deskgap lightweighter than Electron if, at the end of the day, it's using the browser on my OS (which, let's assume, is Chrome)?
- patr0nus 8y ago
  No it would not be. Hopefully Electron will actually do this in some day.
- accatyyc 8y ago
  Because if it uses the same browser binary as your other web apps (tabs or other DeskGap apps), the OS can share memory between them. Not possible with electron since every app bundles its own Chromium binary.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    That is incorrect. Programs can't share memory just because they've been launched from the same binary. This is just reusing a DLL and saving disk space thanks to it.
    - akdor1154 8y ago
      Pretty sure they can on Linux at least.
    - MrStonedOne 8y ago
      You are confusing data memory and code memory.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        I am not, actually I am pointing out that the comment I replied to does.
        accatyyc 8y ago
        Both code memory and data memory will be shared by any modern OS. The code memory will of course be shared since it's the same, and the data memory will be shared until modified. Then that memory page will be copied for the process that changed it (check out copy-on-write). And then there's disk memory, which isn't as important IMO but still it will of course be smaller since you don't ship the whole browser stack for each application.
Wehrdo 8y ago
Looks like a great project! The webpage mentions the app size, but no mention of RAM usage, which is a bigger concern with Electron apps to me. Can you comment on how it compares?
- patr0nus 8y ago
  Based on my experiences of using Safari, Edge and Chrome, the RAM overhead is lower. However as the app gets more complex the overhead becomes irrelevant. So for now I consider DeskGap a good place for simple apps. But if you start to build something like VS Code, the RAM usage can’t be good, either.
cotelletta 8y ago
I'm going to avoid installing Windows 10 for as long as possible, so I hope this never takes off. No offense.
pault 8y ago
It has barely started and still pre-alpha, but I would add revery[0]. I know the team working on it and they have a good history of finishing what they start. [0] https://github.com/revery-ui/revery https://github.com/revery-ui/revery
styfle 8y ago
Thanks for making DeskGap! I have been watching these types of tools (desktop js frameworks) and I'm glad the DeskGap docs[0] explain the difference between existing tools like Electrino and Quark although the most notable difference is that those two projects are no longer maintained. I just added DeskGap to my list of Awesome Desktop JS frameworks[1]. [0]: https://deskgap.com/#there-are-already-similar-attempts-electrino-and-quark-for-instance-out-there-what-makes-deskgap-different https://deskgap.com/#there-are-already-similar-attempts-elec... [1]: https://github.com/styfle/awesome-desktop-js https://github.com/styfle/awesome-desktop-js

kodablah 8y ago

Howdy, can you compare the system-side webview with https://github.com/zserge/webview https://github.com/zserge/webview? Specifically, what control do you use on windows, MSHTML or have you incorporated the recently-freed-from-UWP (I think) Edge API? EDIT: Appears the latter [0]. Great work. I wonder how this affects bundling...does this make it a UWP app? 0 - https://github.com/patr0nus/DeskGap/blob/master/core/src/win/webview.cpp https://github.com/patr0nus/DeskGap/blob/master/core/src/win...

patr0nus 8y ago
No it's still a Win32 app. As you supposed, It's freed from UWP[0] ;). [0]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/communitytoolkit/controls/wpf-winforms/webview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/communitytoolkit/co...
DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
What happens if you run an EdgeHTML-using application on Windows 7 or 8? I noticed that the EdgeHTML control in WinForms and WPF is not a drop-in replacement for the old WebBrowser control (i.e. it isn’t a subclass, so you must use one or the other, but Microsoft didn’t document the best way to switch between controls based on feature-detection).
- chrismorgan 8y ago
  When you try to call the API, it will fail as it’s not there. The precise failure mode will depend on the application. One possibility would be to crash outright. Another would be to try the EdgeHTML control, then fall back to MSHTML. Yet another would be to try EdgeHTML, then complain in an alert, notifying the user of the requirement for the new version of Windows.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

alexandernst 8y ago

How is Deskgap lightweighter than Electron if, at the end of the day, it's using the browser on my OS (which, let's assume, is Chrome)?

patr0nus 8y ago
No it would not be. Hopefully Electron will actually do this in some day.
accatyyc 8y ago
Because if it uses the same browser binary as your other web apps (tabs or other DeskGap apps), the OS can share memory between them. Not possible with electron since every app bundles its own Chromium binary.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  That is incorrect. Programs can't share memory just because they've been launched from the same binary. This is just reusing a DLL and saving disk space thanks to it.
  - akdor1154 8y ago
    Pretty sure they can on Linux at least.
  - MrStonedOne 8y ago
    You are confusing data memory and code memory.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      I am not, actually I am pointing out that the comment I replied to does.
      - accatyyc 8y ago
        Both code memory and data memory will be shared by any modern OS. The code memory will of course be shared since it's the same, and the data memory will be shared until modified. Then that memory page will be copied for the process that changed it (check out copy-on-write). And then there's disk memory, which isn't as important IMO but still it will of course be smaller since you don't ship the whole browser stack for each application.

Wehrdo 8y ago

Looks like a great project! The webpage mentions the app size, but no mention of RAM usage, which is a bigger concern with Electron apps to me. Can you comment on how it compares?

patr0nus 8y ago
Based on my experiences of using Safari, Edge and Chrome, the RAM overhead is lower. However as the app gets more complex the overhead becomes irrelevant. So for now I consider DeskGap a good place for simple apps. But if you start to build something like VS Code, the RAM usage can’t be good, either.

cotelletta 8y ago

I'm going to avoid installing Windows 10 for as long as possible, so I hope this never takes off. No offense.

pault 8y ago

It has barely started and still pre-alpha, but I would add revery[0]. I know the team working on it and they have a good history of finishing what they start. [0] https://github.com/revery-ui/revery https://github.com/revery-ui/revery

styfle 8y ago

Thanks for making DeskGap! I have been watching these types of tools (desktop js frameworks) and I'm glad the DeskGap docs[0] explain the difference between existing tools like Electrino and Quark although the most notable difference is that those two projects are no longer maintained. I just added DeskGap to my list of Awesome Desktop JS frameworks[1]. [0]: https://deskgap.com/#there-are-already-similar-attempts-electrino-and-quark-for-instance-out-there-what-makes-deskgap-different https://deskgap.com/#there-are-already-similar-attempts-elec... [1]: https://github.com/styfle/awesome-desktop-js https://github.com/styfle/awesome-desktop-js