9 ms·

El Chapo Trial: Why His I.T. Guy Had a Nervous Breakdown

120 points by ajay-d 8y ago

Animats 8y ago
From the article: "The I.T. expert said the crime lord also asked him to install spyware called FlexiSPY on the “special phones” he had given to his wife, Emma Coronel Aispuro, as well as to two of his lovers, including one who was a former Mexican lawmaker. ... Mr. Rodriguez also gave the (FBI) the user names and passwords of Mr. Guzmán’s FlexiSPY accounts, allowing agents to read — almost in real time — the intimate and incriminating texts he sent his romantic partners." Right there is one of the best arguments to make against backdoors. If you put in a backdoor for yourself, someone else may use it, too. This example will get that across to CEOs and politicians.
- rbritton 8y ago
  I'm honestly not sure it will get that across. The common mindset always for those pushing for these kinds of backdoors is that _they_ are the ones who will be the sole beneficiaries of it. They either fail to accept (or ignore) that something being protected solely by policy is not the same level of protection as something truly impossible.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  So did this man commit a crime against people on behalf of the drug man, and then the FBI became co conspirators to th crime? Or did they seek some sort of warrant?
  - vanattab 8y ago
    From this article https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/01/09/El-Chapo-jurors-read-texts-to-accused-drug-lords-wife-associates/6151547080840/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/01/09/El-Chapo-jurors-r... "FBI Agent Steven Marston said the agency obtained warrants to intercept hundreds of text messages from 2012 via the spyware Guzman installed on the phones of his wife Emma Coronel Aispuro, associates and purported mistress Augustina Cabanillas Acosta, The Los Angeles Times reported."
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    The US warrants can protect against wrongs in the US, but mean little outside the us. If we look too closely we can probably find some illegality somewhere, but everyone is now in the US and will probably never leave. Given the case, i doubt any country will speak up about the fbi tapping the phones of drug dealers outside the us. But do the same for political or trade reason and yes, they will cry foul.
- therealx 8y ago
  Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for an Asian husband and wife duo.
  - jhowell 8y ago
    I'm not Asian, but am curious to know why the word Asian is relevant in your post?
    - excalibur 8y ago
      Perhaps it refers to geography rather than ethnicity?
    - fipple 8y ago
      Because detail is how we bring stories to life. Otherwise all of our statements would be “I did a thing with a person.”
      - throwaway47332 8y ago
        “Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a White husband and wife duo.” “Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a Jewish husband and wife duo.” I guess it does add more detail.
      - eridius 8y ago
        Some details are merely descriptive. Others have a history of being associated with discrimination in some form. Unless race is relevant to the story, it should be omitted. I’m sure there are plenty of other details about the couple that could be mentioned if you need to spice up the story.
        fipple 8y ago
        "this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a short guy and his wife." "What do you have against short men?"
- SomethingOrNot 8y ago
  The world doesn’t change by “getting things across” to CEOs and politicians. If a CEO’s enlightenment gets int the way of his fiduciary responsibilities, he will simple be replaced. It’s about systems, not Great Men.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    People make the system. The CEO. The board. Your local city council. Your federal representatives. There is no smart contract, there is no code that evaluates the rules obediently without interpretation. Just people.
    - trhway 8y ago
      Personally i'm with you on that. Unfortunately cold objective science says different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory "In terms of its effects, a system can be more than the sum of its parts if it expresses synergy or emergent behavior. "
    - PakG1 8y ago
      On a micro scale, yes. On a macro scale, it's easy to see that even the higher ups are just players in a bigger game, the rules of which they did not make. But the most successful ones (according to a specific definition of success) play the game well.
    - ataturk 8y ago
      Right. And people are corrupt to their very core. I look at every state now working to abrogate our fundamental rights and wonder where it all ends. You think they're going to stop with gun control? Oh no, you are in for a huge shock. That is just the beginning of what the powerful are going to take. They whittle away and concentrate power and one day you're eating from a garbage can wondering what he hell happened (Venezuela). News flash: You were stupid! That's what happened. The wielding of power is a zero sum game and all the people you listed are all schemers, scheming their way into your life to take what they want. The only chance we might have at stopping any of it is to gain some technological high ground--or go full on Norseman. Funny you mention "smart contracts" because we used to have dumb ones, a written Constitution, a Bill of Rights, but that has all been washed away by human greed.
- ajuc 8y ago
  It was a pretty common occurrence in medieval times to start a war, buy an army of mercenaries, miscalculate something, not be able to pay them their salaries, get conquered by your own mercenaries. The conclusion people got from this was "make sure you pay your mercenaries on time", and not "don't start wars".
sctb 8y ago
A couple of recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916367
keketi 8y ago
> After fleeing to the United States, Mr. Rodriguez said he had a “nervous breakdown” within a year. He was hospitalized and treated with electroconvulsive therapy. I had no idea that electric shocks are still used to treat mental issues.
- chdaniel 8y ago
  tbh that bit sounded like a masked torturing thingy going on for him — but hey, hope he's ok
- mehwoot 8y ago
  They are, and they are one of the most effective single treatments. But usually only when treatment options are exhausted.
- rjkennedy98 8y ago
  ECT is very commonly used still. Its considered the best treatment for drug-resistant depression.
  - king_panic 8y ago
    Not for long (fingers crossed) https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-to-ketamine-wins-endorsement-of-key-advisory-panel/ https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-...
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-... This article seems to paint Ketamine as the worse of the two options for extreme depression.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  It has that 'barbaric and probably pseudoscientific treatment that we surely abandoned 50 years ago' feel, doesn't it? But I remember reading in this SSC post (at point 7) that it actually works well, and isn't quite as scary as it sounds, although the long-term effects are still uncertain: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-...
readhn 8y ago
What i find amusing is that he only asked for $100,000 to build the network. To risk his life and his entire family for 100K ... even in mexico this is not a lot of money it seems. The number should have been closer to at least 5-10 million range depending on the size of the family - enough $ to get everyone out permanently to a safe place somewhere far far away on a short notice when things go bad. (similar to that breaking bad guy who makes people disappear when things go bad: permanent change of identity, relocation etc. even that movie guy charged 250K to make that happen.) But perhaps this IT guy was made an offer he couldn't refuse... Also, i cant believe that someone running multi-billion dollar empire was too cheap to pay for bullet proof security system. You get what you pay for. p.s. clearly you can tell i watched too many narcos episodes and BB.
- BaldricksGhost 8y ago
  Plata o plomo.
  - readhn 8y ago
    I feel like that was the case here. Even though they said he was "recommended".
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  Right, so based upon repeated viewings of Breaking Bad and Narcos, you feel you have the real world experience to understand the expected rate of an IT project in Mexico?
  - jerrysievert 8y ago
    > you feel you have the real world experience to understand the expected rate of an IT project in Mexico? not OP, but a risk vs reward calculation should probably go into it ...
  - therealx 8y ago
    I haven't watched any of those shows but estimating those specs easily gets that high, esp when there's the risk
kevin_b_er 8y ago
Poor IT guy will probably be executed too. The reach of the crime syndicates pretty pervasive, even throughout the US. He'll likely never know any peace, even if he hadn't had a total mental breakdown.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- 3327 8y ago
  Yeah, he is done... a pawn in the big game. poor mofo. the reach of those guys is scary. HE could relocate to the middle of nowhere but i can't imagine a life of looking over your shoulder.
- krackers 8y ago
  Won't they have witness protection though?
  - perfmode 8y ago
    Good luck hiding from the most profitable black market corporation in the history of civilization.
  - guessmyname 8y ago
    Oh wow! I envy your ignorance. Mexican cartels are some of the worst organizations in the world. They don’t want to kill you, they want to make you suffer. They will kill his family, the family of his family, and maybe the whole neighborhood just to make him go crazy, and then —right at the end— they will kill him. If the IT guy was smart enough to hide all his family’s information, then maybe they are safe, but he is still in danger because the mafia will bride someone from the protection program to kill him, and I don’t mean “bride” with money, no, I mean bride them with their own life, because if the person from the protection program doesn’t gives them access to the IT guy, they will kill their family too. I am exaggerating a little bit, maybe I shouldn’t even write this considering that I’m spreading the fear, and that’s probably what they want —same as other organizations like ISIS— but I have seen so much pain and tears over the years, that I genuinely don’t believe the IT guy will be in peace.
whoisjuan 8y ago
https://outline.com/AZ9kWk https://outline.com/AZ9kWk

120 points by ajay-d 8y ago

From the article: "The I.T. expert said the crime lord also asked him to install spyware called FlexiSPY on the “special phones” he had given to his wife, Emma Coronel Aispuro, as well as to two of his lovers, including one who was a former Mexican lawmaker. ... Mr. Rodriguez also gave the (FBI) the user names and passwords of Mr. Guzmán’s FlexiSPY accounts, allowing agents to read — almost in real time — the intimate and incriminating texts he sent his romantic partners." Right there is one of the best arguments to make against backdoors. If you put in a backdoor for yourself, someone else may use it, too. This example will get that across to CEOs and politicians.

rbritton 8y ago
I'm honestly not sure it will get that across. The common mindset always for those pushing for these kinds of backdoors is that _they_ are the ones who will be the sole beneficiaries of it. They either fail to accept (or ignore) that something being protected solely by policy is not the same level of protection as something truly impossible.
Waterluvian 8y ago
So did this man commit a crime against people on behalf of the drug man, and then the FBI became co conspirators to th crime? Or did they seek some sort of warrant?
- vanattab 8y ago
  From this article https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/01/09/El-Chapo-jurors-read-texts-to-accused-drug-lords-wife-associates/6151547080840/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/01/09/El-Chapo-jurors-r... "FBI Agent Steven Marston said the agency obtained warrants to intercept hundreds of text messages from 2012 via the spyware Guzman installed on the phones of his wife Emma Coronel Aispuro, associates and purported mistress Augustina Cabanillas Acosta, The Los Angeles Times reported."
- sandworm101 8y ago
  The US warrants can protect against wrongs in the US, but mean little outside the us. If we look too closely we can probably find some illegality somewhere, but everyone is now in the US and will probably never leave. Given the case, i doubt any country will speak up about the fbi tapping the phones of drug dealers outside the us. But do the same for political or trade reason and yes, they will cry foul.
therealx 8y ago
Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for an Asian husband and wife duo.
- jhowell 8y ago
  I'm not Asian, but am curious to know why the word Asian is relevant in your post?
  - excalibur 8y ago
    Perhaps it refers to geography rather than ethnicity?
  - fipple 8y ago
    Because detail is how we bring stories to life. Otherwise all of our statements would be “I did a thing with a person.”
    - throwaway47332 8y ago
      “Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a White husband and wife duo.” “Funny enough, but this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a Jewish husband and wife duo.” I guess it does add more detail.
    - eridius 8y ago
      Some details are merely descriptive. Others have a history of being associated with discrimination in some form. Unless race is relevant to the story, it should be omitted. I’m sure there are plenty of other details about the couple that could be mentioned if you need to spice up the story.
      - fipple 8y ago
        "this reminds me almost exactly of what I was asked to do while working for a short guy and his wife." "What do you have against short men?"
SomethingOrNot 8y ago
The world doesn’t change by “getting things across” to CEOs and politicians. If a CEO’s enlightenment gets int the way of his fiduciary responsibilities, he will simple be replaced. It’s about systems, not Great Men.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  People make the system. The CEO. The board. Your local city council. Your federal representatives. There is no smart contract, there is no code that evaluates the rules obediently without interpretation. Just people.
  - trhway 8y ago
    Personally i'm with you on that. Unfortunately cold objective science says different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory "In terms of its effects, a system can be more than the sum of its parts if it expresses synergy or emergent behavior. "
  - PakG1 8y ago
    On a micro scale, yes. On a macro scale, it's easy to see that even the higher ups are just players in a bigger game, the rules of which they did not make. But the most successful ones (according to a specific definition of success) play the game well.
  - ataturk 8y ago
    Right. And people are corrupt to their very core. I look at every state now working to abrogate our fundamental rights and wonder where it all ends. You think they're going to stop with gun control? Oh no, you are in for a huge shock. That is just the beginning of what the powerful are going to take. They whittle away and concentrate power and one day you're eating from a garbage can wondering what he hell happened (Venezuela). News flash: You were stupid! That's what happened. The wielding of power is a zero sum game and all the people you listed are all schemers, scheming their way into your life to take what they want. The only chance we might have at stopping any of it is to gain some technological high ground--or go full on Norseman. Funny you mention "smart contracts" because we used to have dumb ones, a written Constitution, a Bill of Rights, but that has all been washed away by human greed.
ajuc 8y ago
It was a pretty common occurrence in medieval times to start a war, buy an army of mercenaries, miscalculate something, not be able to pay them their salaries, get conquered by your own mercenaries. The conclusion people got from this was "make sure you pay your mercenaries on time", and not "don't start wars".

sctb 8y ago

A couple of recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916367

keketi 8y ago

> After fleeing to the United States, Mr. Rodriguez said he had a “nervous breakdown” within a year. He was hospitalized and treated with electroconvulsive therapy. I had no idea that electric shocks are still used to treat mental issues.

chdaniel 8y ago
tbh that bit sounded like a masked torturing thingy going on for him — but hey, hope he's ok
mehwoot 8y ago
They are, and they are one of the most effective single treatments. But usually only when treatment options are exhausted.
rjkennedy98 8y ago
ECT is very commonly used still. Its considered the best treatment for drug-resistant depression.
- king_panic 8y ago
  Not for long (fingers crossed) https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-to-ketamine-wins-endorsement-of-key-advisory-panel/ https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-...
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-... This article seems to paint Ketamine as the worse of the two options for extreme depression.
retsibsi 8y ago
It has that 'barbaric and probably pseudoscientific treatment that we surely abandoned 50 years ago' feel, doesn't it? But I remember reading in this SSC post (at point 7) that it actually works well, and isn't quite as scary as it sounds, although the long-term effects are still uncertain: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-...

readhn 8y ago

What i find amusing is that he only asked for $100,000 to build the network. To risk his life and his entire family for 100K ... even in mexico this is not a lot of money it seems. The number should have been closer to at least 5-10 million range depending on the size of the family - enough $ to get everyone out permanently to a safe place somewhere far far away on a short notice when things go bad. (similar to that breaking bad guy who makes people disappear when things go bad: permanent change of identity, relocation etc. even that movie guy charged 250K to make that happen.) But perhaps this IT guy was made an offer he couldn't refuse... Also, i cant believe that someone running multi-billion dollar empire was too cheap to pay for bullet proof security system. You get what you pay for. p.s. clearly you can tell i watched too many narcos episodes and BB.

BaldricksGhost 8y ago
Plata o plomo.
- readhn 8y ago
  I feel like that was the case here. Even though they said he was "recommended".
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
Right, so based upon repeated viewings of Breaking Bad and Narcos, you feel you have the real world experience to understand the expected rate of an IT project in Mexico?
- jerrysievert 8y ago
  > you feel you have the real world experience to understand the expected rate of an IT project in Mexico? not OP, but a risk vs reward calculation should probably go into it ...
- therealx 8y ago
  I haven't watched any of those shows but estimating those specs easily gets that high, esp when there's the risk

kevin_b_er 8y ago

Poor IT guy will probably be executed too. The reach of the crime syndicates pretty pervasive, even throughout the US. He'll likely never know any peace, even if he hadn't had a total mental breakdown.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
3327 8y ago
Yeah, he is done... a pawn in the big game. poor mofo. the reach of those guys is scary. HE could relocate to the middle of nowhere but i can't imagine a life of looking over your shoulder.
krackers 8y ago
Won't they have witness protection though?
- perfmode 8y ago
  Good luck hiding from the most profitable black market corporation in the history of civilization.
- guessmyname 8y ago
  Oh wow! I envy your ignorance. Mexican cartels are some of the worst organizations in the world. They don’t want to kill you, they want to make you suffer. They will kill his family, the family of his family, and maybe the whole neighborhood just to make him go crazy, and then —right at the end— they will kill him. If the IT guy was smart enough to hide all his family’s information, then maybe they are safe, but he is still in danger because the mafia will bride someone from the protection program to kill him, and I don’t mean “bride” with money, no, I mean bride them with their own life, because if the person from the protection program doesn’t gives them access to the IT guy, they will kill their family too. I am exaggerating a little bit, maybe I shouldn’t even write this considering that I’m spreading the fear, and that’s probably what they want —same as other organizations like ISIS— but I have seen so much pain and tears over the years, that I genuinely don’t believe the IT guy will be in peace.

whoisjuan 8y ago

https://outline.com/AZ9kWk https://outline.com/AZ9kWk