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What values are those? The value of treating China as the enemy simply because? "The position of PRC is that the ROC and PRC are two different factions in the

What values are those? The value of treating China as the enemy simply because? "The position of PRC is that the ROC and PRC are two different factions in the Chinese Civil War, which never legally ended. Therefore the PRC claims that both factions belong to the same sovereign country—China. Since, as per the PRC, Taiwan's sovereignty belongs to China, the PRC's government and supporters believe that the secession of Taiwan should be agreed upon by all 1.3 billion Chinese citizens instead of just the 23 million residents of Taiwan.[15] Furthermore, the position of PRC is that UN General Assembly Resolution 2758, which states "Recognizing that the representatives of the Government of the People's Republic of China are the only lawful representatives of China to the United Nations", means that the PRC is recognized as having the sovereignty of all of China, including Taiwan." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan Basically a bunch of the wealthy class fled to Taiwan, claimed the land, also claimed all of China and Mongolia (to this day), yet denied citizenship to the billions of Chinese people on the mainland (only overseas/wealthy Chinese were allowed Republic of China citizenship).

Aeolun 8y ago
I don’t think the origins of the country really matter. Present day Taiwan is a country in literally everything but name. That is silly in my opinion.
- CogitoCogito 8y ago
  I agree with you in principle, but I'd go further. The ROC certainly _is_ a country in name as well. It doesn't have relations with all the world's governments, but neither does e.g. the US nor the PRC. The origins aren't really that special anyway. The conflict between the PRC and ROC is really a conflict between two governments over borders. The correct parallel is something like India and Pakistan or North and South Korea. The PRC (mostly...also some people in the ROC) like to act like their case is some mystical historical wrong that must be righted, but it's really not special in any way. The PRC wants to annex its neighbor and uses propaganda in an attempt to make themselves look noble. It's a standard playbook.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    let’s say there was revolution in the US right now because of the anti 1% movement. The 99%, having voting control of congress decide to enact some laws that greatly redistribute wealth from the 1%. Let’s say in order to protect themselves the 1% decide to all move to one city (new york), and take all their wealth with them, and form a new country out of this piece of the USA. Seems like a giant loophole because the 99% are still poor even though they’ve “won” the war for the US, but lost a crucial, albeit tiny, piece of land which contains the majority of US wealth. You can bet the 99% would fight to take back NYC as well as all the wealth sequestered there by the 1%. The fundamental reasoning behind China’s claim to Taiwan is not just the physical land, but also the claim of legacy wealth that was taken from China and moved there, which was why the revolution happened in the first place. A small but meaningful piece of the country cannot simply decide to setup a rogue government to avoid persecution from the law, just like how it would not be tolerated if a bunch of wealthy 1% decided to form their own country within the US (from US land they take) just to avoid being taxed.
    - CogitoCogito 8y ago
      This is non-sense. Firstly stop resorting to weird hypotheticals when you can just let the current facts speak for themselves. The PRC simply has never governed Taiwan, Kinmen, etc. Secondly it wasn't the ROC that set up a rouge government, it was the PRC! Of course the PRC will say whatever to try to make it's claims legitimate (just as the ROC did in decades past), but none of it changes the fact that they are two separate countries and have been separate for almost 70 years. The PRC is trying to act like it's special, but it's just following the same playbook that countries have followed for thousands of years: claim some other country as their own because "reasons" and then try to make their political and military aggression somehow seem justified. But that doesn't change the fact that the PRC is just trying to take over another country when it could easily and fruitfully co-exist fruitfully with it. It's shameful and shameful that people like you would support such nonsense. Maybe as a summary here is my message to all those trying to argue for continued aggression between the PRC and ROC: Just stop and support an official peace treaty you power-hungry maniacs. Stop trying to pretend your support for a resumption of war between the states is justified when de facto peace has existed for so long. Just stop.

Aeolun 8y ago

I don’t think the origins of the country really matter. Present day Taiwan is a country in literally everything but name. That is silly in my opinion.

CogitoCogito 8y ago
I agree with you in principle, but I'd go further. The ROC certainly _is_ a country in name as well. It doesn't have relations with all the world's governments, but neither does e.g. the US nor the PRC. The origins aren't really that special anyway. The conflict between the PRC and ROC is really a conflict between two governments over borders. The correct parallel is something like India and Pakistan or North and South Korea. The PRC (mostly...also some people in the ROC) like to act like their case is some mystical historical wrong that must be righted, but it's really not special in any way. The PRC wants to annex its neighbor and uses propaganda in an attempt to make themselves look noble. It's a standard playbook.
- chrischen 8y ago
  let’s say there was revolution in the US right now because of the anti 1% movement. The 99%, having voting control of congress decide to enact some laws that greatly redistribute wealth from the 1%. Let’s say in order to protect themselves the 1% decide to all move to one city (new york), and take all their wealth with them, and form a new country out of this piece of the USA. Seems like a giant loophole because the 99% are still poor even though they’ve “won” the war for the US, but lost a crucial, albeit tiny, piece of land which contains the majority of US wealth. You can bet the 99% would fight to take back NYC as well as all the wealth sequestered there by the 1%. The fundamental reasoning behind China’s claim to Taiwan is not just the physical land, but also the claim of legacy wealth that was taken from China and moved there, which was why the revolution happened in the first place. A small but meaningful piece of the country cannot simply decide to setup a rogue government to avoid persecution from the law, just like how it would not be tolerated if a bunch of wealthy 1% decided to form their own country within the US (from US land they take) just to avoid being taxed.
  - CogitoCogito 8y ago
    This is non-sense. Firstly stop resorting to weird hypotheticals when you can just let the current facts speak for themselves. The PRC simply has never governed Taiwan, Kinmen, etc. Secondly it wasn't the ROC that set up a rouge government, it was the PRC! Of course the PRC will say whatever to try to make it's claims legitimate (just as the ROC did in decades past), but none of it changes the fact that they are two separate countries and have been separate for almost 70 years. The PRC is trying to act like it's special, but it's just following the same playbook that countries have followed for thousands of years: claim some other country as their own because "reasons" and then try to make their political and military aggression somehow seem justified. But that doesn't change the fact that the PRC is just trying to take over another country when it could easily and fruitfully co-exist fruitfully with it. It's shameful and shameful that people like you would support such nonsense. Maybe as a summary here is my message to all those trying to argue for continued aggression between the PRC and ROC: Just stop and support an official peace treaty you power-hungry maniacs. Stop trying to pretend your support for a resumption of war between the states is justified when de facto peace has existed for so long. Just stop.